Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[sutton9999]

Always thought IRI was the result of Arab defeat in 1973. Iran needs to play an adversary role in this region, while not leaning into Soviet, IRI was a perfect fit.

 

[Liquidator]

Let me remind you what you wrote because either you forgot it or are deliberately running away from it after being proven wrong.

You were objecting to common belief (US CIA, defense secretary said) that Shah did not crack down harder on Islamists (Western backed) and Marxists (USSR backed) because that would have been him killing Iranians, that was your objection. I gave you a list that same IRI regime has killed thousands and thousands of Iranians over political differences, over Hejab draconian laws and what not. Shah did not commit these atrocities, IRI did so what sin Shah would have committed had he cracked down harder on dissidents to save Iran from decades of failure and chaos? Your logic is false. Shah made a mistake of not going hardcore on "revolutionaries" and Iranian nation suffered for next 4.5 decades.



Failed logic of Whataboutism. Shahi military struggled in a small irrelevant conflict on unfamiliar terrain outside Iran so we should neglect IRI's failure in almost every war they fought ?

- Against USSR+EU fueled Baathist in a decade long HUGE war
- Against PGCC fueled terror groups in South for 4 decades
- Against Israel killing Iranian scientists & generals inside/outside Iran
- Against US killing top Iranian general
- Failure to maintain now dead IRIAF, Got 1000 Iranians killed because of it
- Failure to maintain struggling IRIN

Same Shahi built IIAF (rebranded IRIAF) and and armour massively saved Iranian lives against Baathists. What did IRI do? had Israelis not bombed Osirak with IRIAF, Tehran would have nuked. Whatever deterence Iran has showed, it has its origin in Shahi Military build up. Your entire argument is flawed.



I proved your stupid logic wrong that GDP means nothing or is less important. You implied that above calling me hyper capitalist after I told you that Shahi Iran at one point was worlds 14th largest Economy, may be in top 10 if EU countries are joint under EU umbrella. IRI is 4th time poorer, in 40s despite having more proven natural resources than China.



Agree with you ? lol Either you have chornic weak memory, forgetting your own posts, or pretending to be after being proven wrong again and again. You were implying that IRI somehow magically improved wealth equality in Iran giving me irrelevant examples of US. I gave you numerical fact with source that Gini Index, the marker for wealth distrubtion, of Imperial Iran and IRI is same (~0.4) which mean IRI did nothing for Iranian public except that country became 4 times poorer due to self induced sanctions.

Little request, next time you reply, focus on what you wrote earlier.

Don't bother
You are talking to either a clown or an Israeli agent.

 

[FUB]

Not often, but this post points to reality.

 

[ToddE]

Not often, but this post points to reality.

Patarames has become an IRGC mouthpiece in recent time but this post makes sense. 12 day war is a strategic Iranian victory in longer terms. Jews acted in a rush and failed.

 

[ToddE]

Patarames has become an IRGC mouthpiece in recent time but this post makes sense. 12 day war is a strategic Iranian victory in longer terms. Jews acted in a rush and failed.

People need to understand how the world works. US + EU is not interested in stopping Iranian oil flow to China because if they stop that, Russia will fill the void and thats a more dangerous player to deal with than naive IRI. China-US/ EU are biggest trade partners of each other (1.5+ trillion USD a year), so any secure raw material supply to China supports US or EU trade volume. They would not want more difficult Russia to be part of this equation if it takes Iranian place.

 

[Musings]

Right
Thread bans are now being dished out. Next off topic or personal attack will result in bans

 

[BigMela2onin]

You failed to prove every single point you initially made:

1) You pointed out that Shah cracking down harder on foreign funded revolutionaries would be him killing Iranians while ignoring the fact IRI has killed thousands of Iranians in name of political differences and draconian islamic laws.

IR has nothing to due with what I said. I'm just saying that you are arguing that the Shah didn't kill enough people. If that isn't what you're saying than clarify what cracking down harder would be. If that is what you're saying then there is no need to discuss this further.

2) You claimed that Shahi military was weak yet Shahi built IIAF, IA saved Iranian nation from Baathist war machine, IRI failed in almost all campaigns it fought.

Shah's military never had a successful campaign either. I have brought up how the Pentagon reported IIAF pilot skill as substandard in the 70s. What are you basing the statement that the Shah's military was powerful on?

3) You implied that GDP means nothing and me pointing out Imperial Iran being 14th largest economy of world makes me a "hyper capitalist" yet we know superpowers are superpowers because they have wealth. IRI is weak because it has 1/4th GDP of Imperial Iran due to self induced sanctions.

Adjusted for inflation, GDP per capita has not changed much between 1978 and now while total GDP has increased, yet quality of life has plummeted under IR. This would go against your argument.

Summary Table​

Metric	1978 (Pre-Revolution)	Today (2023/2024)	Change & Interpretation
Total Real GDP	~$210 billion (2015 USD)	~$400 billion (2015 USD)	Significant Increase (~90%). The overall economy is much larger.
Real GDP per Capita	~$2,500 (2011 USD)	~$2,700 (2011 USD)	Stagnant / Slight Increase. After 45 years, the average economic output per person is roughly the same.
Key Drivers	High oil revenues, Western-aligned monarchy, rapid modernization.	"Resistance economy," sanctions adaptation, diversified non-oil exports, large population.
Economic Context	Peak of Pahlavi-era prosperity; a wealthy regional power.	Sanction-constrained economy; lower middle-income status despite significant human capital.

Conclusion​

The comparison reveals a stark divergence:

• In aggregate terms (Total GDP), Iran is a much larger and more populous economy than it was in 1978.
• In per capita terms (GDP per capita), the average Iranian is, in terms of total economic output, no better off than they were in 1978. This represents a significant opportunity cost. While many peer countries have seen their living standards multiply over the same period, Iran's has stagnated due to revolution, war, isolation, and chronic mismanagement.

4) You claimed that Shahi Iran had wealth injustice which I proved to be false because IRI has same Gini Index as Imperial Iran so what did IRI achieved?

Wealth inequality existed before 79 and remained after, thus it existed before 79. I don't know why you keep bringing up IR.

My entire point is that Pahlavi Iran = failed state, IR = failed state, and any future Iran = failed state. The key factor in all these states any any future Iranian state is the uncivilized and tribal people inhabiting the country. You keep comparing Shah's Iran with IR when we should be comparing both to functional states instead.

 

[BigMela2onin]

I have to disagree with with you , you can get more tribal and sectarian as india

Yes, my point is that they had civil institutions built for them and because of it they have a successful space program, domestic aircraft programs, ICBMs, nukes, everything. Without colonization, they would be closer to Iran than where they are today.

 

[Shafagh]

Does that target include the intel CPU foundries? Shows how little Iran understands the economics of warfare if it does not. You take out those intel CPU/Processor foundries, you kill dead all large scale infrastructure investment in Israel by foreign companies. And, you give the USA a good poke in the eye as Intel is on life support right now.

It would make sense for Iran to keep the most highly valued targets, classified information.

You don't tell your enemy where you intend to punch them, before you throw your fist.

 

[Kyussis]

What else do you have to say other than this whataboutism?

I didnt even bring up the Shah, but to refute I.R. shortcomings, you decide to counter with "Oh at least I.R. isn't a pro American dictator who ran a secret police and took billions when he was toppled". That's a student saying oh well I am getting C grade in my classes, but at least I am not getting D.

Then immediately after, we had an Islamic government that killed thousands, drove the economy into the toilet, and alienated us for decades with the embassy hostage stunt, makbar Amrika nonsense.

So best Iran can do is group of geriatric Islamic Marxist dictators, or a pro western stooge obsessed with emulating western culture, lifestyle.

Its Marg bar AmriKa. You can't bare to write it right because it hurts your Garb Geda sentiments!

 

[Persian Gulf]

stop personal attacks

 

[Shafagh]

Its Marg bar AmriKa. You can't bare to write it right because it hurts your Garb Geda sentiments!

I know that. It's a typo. I am not fluent in Persian and thus, do not use it often.

Nothing good came from I.R. slogans like this except for the world thinking Iranians are militant and extremist.

 

[Shafagh]

Have you guys heard about this....

So guys,

Apparently, this is not an actual military site.

A commenter stated this is in Northern Tehran and is a demonstration site for people to visit, with martyrs to be buried there.

Not an actual missile base.

 

[Kyussis]

I know that. It's a typo. I am not fluent in Persian and thus, do not use it often.

Nothing good came from I.R. slogans like this except for the world thinking Iranians are militant and extremist.

"The world" that you speak of are Lackeys of the Jew world order. They killed of half of Iran's population in World War 1. Killed millions more in WWII. Provided Saddam with chemical weapons and impunity to kill and maim 100 000+ Iranians in the 80s and have tried to strangulate My people through stringent sanctions including during a world wide pandemic. I don't give a hoot what they think

 

[Shafagh]

"The world" that you speak of are Lackeys of the Jew world order. They killed of half of Iran's population in World War 1. Killed millions more in WWII. Provided Saddam with chemical weapons and impunity to kill and maim 100 000+ Iranians in the 80s and have tried to strangulate My people through stringent sanctions including during a world wide pandemic. I don't give a hoot what they think

You should care what they think, for it is such sentiment that at least in part allows Israel and Zog to get away with these activities.

If you look at the conservative movement, and more closely, the MAGA movement in the U.S today, you will see that there is a dramatic shift in public sentiment towards Israel. At least half of Trump supporters are now expressing considerable outrage towards Israel. The most influencial political commentators are facilitating this shift. A big part of this awakening is the growing discourse with Pro Palestine advocates, who do not speak out of sheer animosity for Israel and Jews, but through facts, showing how they have been the victim of Israeli sensorship, murder, subjugation.

Whether you agree or not, support for sectarian groups in Iraq and Syria, the extremist rhetoric from I.R. officials and religious leaders, all these actions paint a very dark picture of Iran and Iranians.

That's why you have the loudest neocons and Israel agents saying "See! This is how they are! They openly talk of destroying Israel!"

Netanyahu and people like him demonstrated their biggest anger, when a moderate starts articulating openly and objectively, what Iran's stance is. They love it when an Ahmadinejad type opens their mouth.

Netanyahu acknowledged that this is also a media war, to which Israel is losing. Iran must fight that war too.

I don't expect Iran to ever get a fair portayal in the media, but there have still been opportunities to do so. There is a reason for diplomatic engagement, public relations, and media discourse. Any government must learn this.