Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[FuturePAF]

We need to not fall into the Western inspired ideals of governance. The Arab 'monarchies' which everyone hates became part of the pax Americana and lifted tens of millions of their own people up in relatively peace and indirectly lifted hundreds of millions in other countries by importing labor. And a 'totalitarian' China is a Superpower. And the 'democratic' India under Modi has engineered the worst foreign policy of India. And the 'democratic' Sri Lanka went bankrupt just a few years ago...
What's that saying from Mao about cat catching the mouse... First and foremost nations should have peace and stability. Which creates environment for education and development and with that comes awareness.

True, to a point. A true consultative body of experts and honest local stakeholders can keep locale discontent at bay while also preventing some potentially incompetent people from being unchecked.

Look at the mindset of companies with quarterly and annual outlooks versus companies such as in the German mittlestand with generational outlooks.

 

[Master Chief]

That is only an assumption at this point, kind Sir. We still need to know the details of the MoU and, more importantly, the final agreement in 60 days or so.




Expecting such enforcement that would favor those who wish for your death is a bit premature for now, Sir.

Esteemed fellow forum-goer, even though time may indeed reveal as yet unknown elements, the minimum safe assumption that can be made is that USA has already agreed to cease firing, which is a concession. Likewise, so has Iran, also a concession.

Reading between the lines of your second comment, the implication that Iranians "wish for death" of Israelis is not comparable to the actual death wrought upon Iranians by Israelis, on numerous occasions, in the absence of declared war between the two nation states. This act is to be regarded as the unlawful killing of Iranians by Israelis and therefore, Israelis have no locus standi to criticise others who might simply dream of taking the same action against them. Even that much is an assumption, as wishing "death to x" does not necessitate the subject's involvement in said death.

 

[PakAl]

 

[FuturePAF]

Western style “democracies” is going through a crisis.

Mainly because western style democracies are a con job.

Which has been masked till now because of the way the west was able to manipulate the global order.

Everyone has a vote but the system ensures representation is not equal and people’s wishes are diluted by the structure of government.

USA being the worst example. Where the combination of the way congress is elected and the power of SCOTUS - MAKES A MOCKERY OF DEMOCRACY.

In Europe, the representation is fairer but people are electing fascists into power. Which is not supposed to be possible under “democracy”.

Today, your poster child democracies has a fascist as leader: USA, India, Italy, Israel

Whilst your monarchy or undemocratic country is led by sober individuals with restraint. E.g. China, Iran, Pakistan, Cuba. Hell! Even North Korea!!!

True but up to a point. There is a reason democracies are paired with capitalism; quicker correction OODA loop, if the democracies (in republics) are uncorrupted and hold safeguards to protect minorities.

Authoritarian countries are at the mercy of a limited number of people and primed to derail if incompetent or purely selfish people take over.

 

[clutch]

It is not a popular opinion in this forum to say that Israel can be a good presence in the region due to its knowledge based economy and technical knowhow but for that they will have to become a normal state, grant the Palestinians their rights, respect the Holy Places to be internationally managed.

Israel is a genocidal state. Period.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me with Israel, shame on me.

There will be no peace in the Middle East as long as Israel exists.

 

[Cash gk]

When will Pakistani sing song of taskuurr

 

[PakistanLVR]

Pretty strange for a person with education and knowledge like this Indian retired Airforce officer to say that Pakistan is an American 'trojan horse' to lure Iran into a Deal so that later the Americans can bomb the hell out of Iran!
Looks like India has plenty of General Bakshis with free time and cowdung brains in their military retired officials.

Firstly, republic tv is another one of their right wing crap. Secondary, this is a common propaganda against Pakistan by many including on this forum like @Watandar @925boy @BananaRepublic.
I’m staunchly anti- Pakistani military but until the afghans and Indians came be tamed, we don’t have a choice and can’t take a weaker defense. The Indians are full hellbent on destroying Pakistan anyway possible. Make no mistake, this is a zero-sum game between and I hear Pakistan military is actually preparing for a large conflict. If it means being labeled as an American proxy then so be it. Those who know, know that this is farthest from the truth

 

[PakistanLVR]

It is not a popular opinion in this forum to say that Israel can be a good presence in the region due to its knowledge based economy and technical knowhow but for that they will have to become a normal state, grant the Palestinians their rights, respect the Holy Places to be internationally managed.

No. They need to go. If they haven’t changed their behavior in 3k years, they sure won’t now. All of them need to scuttle back to whatever rat holes they crawled out of in 1945

 

[VCheng]

the minimum safe assumption that can be made is that USA has already agreed to cease firing, which is a concession. Likewise, so has Iran, also a concession.

Agreed. Both sides have made concessions, for that is the very nature of negotiations to end wars. Neither side gets everything it wants, while trying to give up as little as possible. That is how wars end at the negotiating table, always.

Who gave up what is still unknown at this point, I might add.

Iranians "wish for death" of Israelis

No Sir. I was referring to the famous Iranian slogans, which are clearly not about Israel.

That alone is rich material for Israel to exploit to prevent any meaningful tilt towards Iran in US policies. Iran has to consider its stance if it wishes to be successful in seeing a more sympathetic USA towards it, plain and simple.

If Iran chooses not to do so, and persist in its polices, then it is perfectly within its sovereign rights to do so, let me state clearly. But it comes with its own pros and cons, always.

 

[Watandar]

Pretty strange for a person with education and knowledge like this Indian retired Airforce officer to say that Pakistan is an American 'trojan horse' to lure Iran into a Deal so that later the Americans can bomb the hell out of Iran!
Looks like India has plenty of General Bakshis with free time and cowdung brains in their military retired officials.

Best not to waste time on every tom dick and harry who puts up a YouTube video , regardless of their credentials. 99% of such videos contain no new information or analysis, just repeating what everyone else said and chasing views.

 

[Meengla]

Best not to waste time on every tom dick and harry who puts up a YouTube video , regardless of their credentials. 99% of such videos contain no new information or analysis, just repeating what everyone else said and chasing views.

I assume it is difficult to become a fighter jet pilot in India and must require very high intelligence but to come up with the stupid ideas like Pakistan is a 'Trojan Horse' for the Americans betrays something terribly wrong even in the highly educated Indian brains. Before the attack on Iran began, General Bakshi was saying that Pakistan was going to facilitate an American attack on Iran from Baluchistan.
WTH!

 

[Watandar]

I assume it is difficult to become a fighter jet pilot in India and must require very high intelligence but to come up with the stupid ideas like Pakistan is a 'Trojan Horse' for the Americans betrays something terribly wrong even in the highly educated Indian brains. Before the attack on Iran began, General Bakshi was saying that Pakistan was going to facilitate an American attack on Iran from Baluchistan.
WTH!

I see Military people, including fighter pilots, as skilled labor. The same as a plumber or electrician. There is little use asking military people for their viewpoints beyond the specific task they have been trained to do.

 

[Starlord]

It is not a popular opinion in this forum to say that Israel can be a good presence in the region due to its knowledge based economy and technical knowhow but for that they will have to become a normal state, grant the Palestinians their rights, respect the Holy Places to be internationally managed.

Removing a State is not a easy task specially a entity like Israel, we often overlook the aspect that Allah has told via Rasool Allah that what is too come so I don't think Israel is going anywhere, but for the time being they can hold peace, the grand creators plans will work and will always take precedent over whatever we humans wants regardless of how our hearts cry for all the innocent death in the region.

 

[lightning f57]

Just let this sink in: the terms are not known yet.

I was not referring to the terms on paper, but the fact the US couldn't subjugate or make Iran surrender. Whatever has been agreed has been on an equal party basis not one side superior than the other as you would see with a victor and loser.

 

[Mobius]