Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[ToddE]

Khamenei wont do anything. He is an obsolete petty politician in disguise of a religious cleric who is rather more interested in pitting political factions against each other so that him as a "balancer" and his extended clan stays in power. Thats what he has been doing for the past 20 years at-least ever since Ahmadinejad intentionally opened his mouth to invite Jewish roar over Iranian nuclear program (first attempt to self-politicise the nuclear program). Khamenei and his Majles + Advisor cronies will rather see Iran burn to ashes if it takes that to keep them in power in name of "principles" then take hard decisions that will ensure national security. I LMOA'ed so hard a week ago when old fool Shamkhani came out saying Khamenei had nothing to do with the letter sent to Trump right after Araghchi had already sent it to through Oman. Its funny, these people still think it matters if they can blame reformists and save "Khamenei" from public disgrace. For them childish domestic political conflicts matter more than national security. Weak men ... this is what this Marxist-Mullah alliance revolution has given us ... weak men.

These people never understood how nuclear armed countries tie up their national security to nuclear weapons and never ever bargain over it again. They rapidify the program and be done with it quickly and forget about it be it superpowers or bankrupt pariah states. Instead to fuel their domestic politics in Iran, Khamenei by deliberately slowing it, allowed it to be politicised internationally so that they can use it domestically by creating factions/power groups that they can safely pit against each other. Result, Iranian "national security" is now on the "talks" table with the enemy, it is now at the gunsight of the same enemy that is willing to burn Iran to ashes any moment now. Signing NPT, Fatwa, allowing IAEA (spy arm in disguise) in, allowing talks over nuclear program, forbidding open tests, forbidding ICBMs, getting in intersemitic wars thousands of KM away from Iran, list goes on and on. Khamenei is Fateh Ali Shah Qajar reborn. Fateh Ali was a war general, a warrior and effective ruler in his early days but later became a stupid clown whose weakness costed Iran its entire Transcaucasia including half of our blood land of Azerbaijan from which both Fateh Ali and Khamenei themselves came out, what an Irony. Khamenei led Iran had proper opportunities to nuke-up Iran some ~30 years ago, instead they focused on sacrificing Iranian national security over politics disguised as "principles" that brought nothing to iran except crippling sanctions, economy halved, society ruined, deterence gone, and now we might even see Iranian nuclear sites getting bombed.

If they had actual balls, what Iran should do right now:

- Test 6-8 Tactical fission devices. Iran currently holds ~300 KG of 60% enriched U235 eough for 30-40 tactical devices. This can go easily to WGU using IR-4M cascades or if IR-8 numbers have increased. Thats what IAEA and we know in public, if there are secret micro WGU sites in Iran like few journalists believe then its time to use them. Test these devices, announce tactical deployment all across the IRGCS and Artesh assets so that American bombing few buildings become meaningless.

- Ensure international community that Iran wont use them and is backing out of Levant and Penninsular Semite holes, purely focusing on its own border security only and thats what nuclear deployment is for.

- Test IRBM+ICBM. K-4 and Sejjil can reach ~3000 KM, loft them at max apogee to increase range in IRBM domains. Ghaem 100, Qassed are TEL launched ICBMS in disguise of SLVs, test them with RVs. Put KS-I/II and Fattah-1/II hypersonic missiles under F-4E/D/SU-24MK/30SM/35S belly and show it as a battle tested nuclear strike weapon, something enemy failed to stop before.

- Aggresively build Soleimani LEO constellation instead of one SLV per few months.

- Focus on developing oil sector to extremes and tie up global east_west money to Iranian oil so their paper currency gets dependent upon Iranian hydrocarbon. Someone wrote a beautiful article years ago that how it was Saudi oil that gave rise to American petro dollar and turned US into a super power. Iran can replicate this strategy with rising powers of BRICS (Not BRICS itself, its a benign group) if leadership in Iran is willing to do so. Iranian GDP PPP naturally without sanctions or any foreign debt is 4-5 trillian USD. Trumps antics with tariffs will open doors to countries seeking trade in non-USD medium and whichever currency has massive Iranian hydrocarbon behind it will take the lead.

- Re-shape Iranian society, stop the brain drain. Iran produces worlds 4th-5th largest STEM grad workforce, our people power top STEM workforces of North America, EU where they are even more educated and high earners than local whites. Stop them in Iran by providing safe public, public-private, private sector opportunities. Iran currently ranks higher in STEM R&D output then entire EU except Germany. Instead of hosting Hamas who attacked IRGC in Syria, host tech corps, expos, tech parks and create markets of Iranian products outside Iran.

 

[ShapurII]

Khamenei wont do anything. He is an obsolete petty politician in disguise of a religious cleric who is rather more interested in pitting political factions against each other so that him as a "balancer" and his extended clan stays in power. Thats what he has been doing for the past 20 years at-least ever since Ahmadinejad intentionally opened his mouth to invite Jewish roar over Iranian nuclear program (first attempt to self-politicise the nuclear program). Khamenei and his Majles + Advisor cronies will rather see Iran burn to ashes if it takes that to keep them in power in name of "principles" then take hard decisions that will ensure national security. I LMOA'ed so hard a week ago when old fool Shamkhani came out saying Khamenei had nothing to do with the letter sent to Trump right after Araghchi had already sent it to through Oman. Its funny, these people still think it matters if they can blame reformists and save "Khamenei" from public disgrace. For them childish domestic political conflicts matter more than national security. Weak men ... this is what this Marxist-Mullah alliance revolution has given us ... weak men.

These people never understood how nuclear armed countries tie up their national security to nuclear weapons and never ever bargain over it again. They rapidify the program and be done with it quickly and forget about it be it superpowers or bankrupt pariah states. Instead to fuel their domestic politics in Iran, Khamenei by deliberately slowing it, allowed it to be politicised internationally so that they can use it domestically by creating factions/power groups that they can safely pit against each other. Result, Iranian "national security" is now on the "talks" table with the enemy, it is now at the gunsight of the same enemy that is willing to burn Iran to ashes any moment now. Signing NPT, Fatwa, allowing IAEA (spy arm in disguise) in, allowing talks over nuclear program, forbidding open tests, forbidding ICBMs, getting in intersemitic wars thousands of KM away from Iran, list goes on and on. Khamenei is Fateh Ali Shah Qajar reborn. Fateh Ali was a war general, a warrior and effective ruler in his early days but later became a stupid clown whose weakness costed Iran its entire Transcaucasia including half of our blood land of Azerbaijan from which both Fateh Ali and Khamenei themselves came out, what an Irony. Khamenei led Iran had proper opportunities to nuke-up Iran some ~30 years ago, instead they focused on sacrificing Iranian national security over politics disguised as "principles" that brought nothing to iran except crippling sanctions, economy halved, society ruined, deterence gone, and now we might even see Iranian nuclear sites getting bombed.

If they had actual balls, what Iran should do right now:

- Test 6-8 Tactical fission devices. Iran currently holds ~300 KG of 60% enriched U235 eough for 30-40 tactical devices. This can go easily to WGU using IR-4M cascades or if IR-8 numbers have increased. Thats what IAEA and we know in public, if there are secret micro WGU sites in Iran like few journalists believe then its time to use them. Test these devices, announce tactical deployment all across the IRGCS and Artesh assets so that American bombing few buildings become meaningless.

- Ensure international community that Iran wont use them and is backing out of Levant and Penninsular Semite holes, purely focusing on its own border security only and thats what nuclear deployment is for.

- Test IRBM+ICBM. K-4 and Sejjil can reach ~3000 KM, loft them at max apogee to increase range in IRBM domains. Ghaem 100, Qassed are TEL launched ICBMS in disguise of SLVs, test them with RVs. Put KS-I/II and Fattah-1/II hypersonic missiles under F-4E/D/SU-24MK/30SM/35S belly and show it as a battle tested nuclear strike weapon, something enemy failed to stop before.

- Aggresively build Soleimani LEO constellation instead of one SLV per few months.

- Focus on developing oil sector to extremes and tie up global east_west money to Iranian oil so their paper currency gets dependent upon Iranian hydrocarbon. Someone wrote a beautiful article years ago that how it was Saudi oil that gave rise to American petro dollar and turned US into a super power. Iran can replicate this strategy with rising powers of BRICS (Not BRICS itself, its a benign group) if leadership in Iran is willing to do so. Iranian GDP PPP naturally without sanctions or any foreign debt is 4-5 trillian USD. Trumps antics with tariffs will open doors to countries seeking trade in non-USD medium and whichever currency has massive Iranian hydrocarbon behind it will take the lead.

- Re-shape Iranian society, stop the brain drain. Iran produces worlds 4th-5th largest STEM grad workforce, our people power top STEM workforces of North America, EU where they are even more educated and high earners than local whites. Stop them in Iran by providing safe public, public-private, private sector opportunities. Iran currently ranks higher in STEM R&D output then entire EU except Germany. Instead of hosting Hamas who attacked IRGC in Syria, host tech corps, expos, tech parks and create markets of Iranian products outside Iran.

I think the only reasonable conclusion at this point is that Khamenei is compromised and he is a Russian asset. The Russian TV (it was Sputnik, if my memory serves me well) once claimed (on the 50th anniversary of the RUDN university) that Khamenei was a graduate of political science from the RUDN (formerly known as Patrice Lumumba University).

The reason that he is so against Iran's missile and nuclear programs could be that Russia does not want Iran to get independent. Iran has cozied up to Russia even after being stabbed in the back by Putin and his circle of power multiple times. Let's not forget that many Israelis are originally from Soviet countries and Israel continues to have tremendous influence in today's Russia.

 

[ToddE]

I think the only reasonable conclusion at this point is that Khamenei is compromised and he is a Russian asset. The Russian TV (it was Sputnik, if my memory serves me well) once claimed that Khamenei was a graduate of political science from the RUDN (formerly known as Patrice Lumumba University).

Lets not forget that Anti-Shah sentiment was purely leftist and was fueled by USSR's KGB because Imperial Iran kicked USSR out of Azerbaijan and Kurdistan when Stalin was eyeing two more SSR's in northern western Iran. People think that Iran as a front line powerful cold war actor was anti-USSR at american behest only but they forget what could have had happened in north west if Iran had not tied itself to US for national security at that time. Anti-Shah sentiment was a leftist Marxist revolution fueled by USSR that was cunningly hijacked by west when they sent in their hosted Khomeini on a french plane. Had they not done that Iran would have become another Yugoslavia only 10 times more larger and stronger ally of USSR. West wanted a Mullah Iran to be naturally be against USSR. Old Trick of pitting Mullahs against Communists (same strategy by west was later seen in Afghanistan, Balkan, and later in Chechnya etc).

The reason that he is so against Iran's missile and nuclear programs is that Russia does not want Iran to get independent. Let's not forget that many Israelis are originally from Soviet countries and Israel continues to have tremendous influence in today's Russia.

Why would Russia want a powerful Iran again? we fought for centuries in Caucasus for territory and later for resources. The same Azeri torks from Republic fought like hell to keep Russia out of Iranian territory until they could not. Just some 7 decades ago USSR wanted to make SSR's out of Iran.

I am not against Russia or US or EU, I do not consider them enemy or have any ill will towards them. They are securing their interests as a nations or groups. Is Iran doing same?

 

[ShapurII]

Lets not forget that Anti-Shah sentiment was purely leftist and was fueled by USSR's KGB because Imperial Iran kicked USSR out of Azerbaijan and Kurdistan when Stalin was eyeing two more SSR's in northern western Iran. People think that Iran as a front line powerful cold war actor was anti-USSR at american behest only but they forget what could have had happened in north west if Iran had not tied itself to US for national security at that time. Anti-Shah sentiment was a leftist Marxist revolution fueled by USSR that was cunningly hijacked by west when they sent in their hosted Khomeini on a french plane. Had they not done that Iran would have become another Yugoslavia only 10 times more larger and stronger ally of USSR. West wanted a Mullah Iran to be naturally be against USSR. Old Trick of pitting Mullahs against Communists (same strategy by west was later seen in Afghanistan, Balkan, and later in Chechnya etc).




Why would Russia want a powerful Iran again? we fought for centuries in Caucasus for territory and later for resources. The same Azeri torks from Republic fought like hell to keep Russia out of Iranian territory until they could not. Just some 7 decades ago USSR wanted to make SSR's out of Iran.

I am not against Russia or US or EU, I do not consider them enemy or have any ill will towards them. They are securing their interests as a nations or groups. Is Iran doing same?

Exactly. I completely agree with the first part of your post. I couldn't have worded it better myself.

Indeed. Russia is geographically closer to Iran than the US after all. They are indirectly our neighbors through the Caspian Sea. A strong Iran would be much worse for Russia than the US, who is over 10,000 kilometers away from us. Russia has tried to undermine Iran's security at each turning point in the history of the Islamic Republic. The Soviet Union was the main military provider of the Saddam's regime. After the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia continued to milk Iraq until Putin eventually threw them under the bus to get the US involved in never-ending Middle East conflicts, right next to Iran. Russia voted in favor of 4 rounds of UN Security Council resolutions that led to the economic collapse of Iran. They delayed the delivery of S300-PMU1 for 8 years when Iran needed long-range SAMs more than ever. They have refused to deliver a single SU-35 to Iran after 3 years. There is ample evidence that Russia is an enemy of Iran. Russia is undermining Iran's national security in the Caucasus region as we speak. They have partnered up with Turkey against Iran. They partnered up with Turkey against Iran in Syria and forced Assad to hand over Syria to Turkey.

All of these nations, Russia, the United States or EU countries rely on the concept of statehood to define their identity, interests and security. Only the Ayatollah regime of Iran has come up with this wonderful idea of Umm Al-Qura that Muslim interests are more important than Iran's national security. I cannot think of even one other state that is led by people who believe in such nonsense.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

Do you see, in times of war and propaganda, how infiltrators and hypocrites show their true colors? Infiltrators, moreover, are a far cry from the old forum.

 

[Khorasan Black Flags]

Exactly. I completely agree with the first part of your post. I couldn't have worded it better myself.

Indeed. Russia is geographically closer to Iran than the US after all. They are indirectly our neighbors through the Caspian Sea. A strong Iran would be much worse for Russia than the US, who is over 10,000 kilometers away from us. Russia has tried to undermine Iran's security at each turning point in the history of the Islamic Republic. The Soviet Union was the main military provider of the Saddam's regime. After the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia continued to milk Iraq until Putin eventually threw them under the bus to get the US involved in never-ending Middle East conflicts, right next to Iran. Russia voted in favor of 4 rounds of UN Security Council resolutions that led to the economic collapse of Iran. They delayed the delivery of S300-PMU1 for 8 years when Iran needed long-range SAMs more than ever. They have refused to deliver a single SU-35 to Iran after 3 years. There is ample evidence that Russia is an enemy of Iran. Russia is undermining Iran's national security in the Caucasus region as we speak. They have partnered up with Turkey against Iran. They partnered up with Turkey against Iran in Syria and forced Assad to hand over Syria to Turkey.

All of these nations, Russia, the United States or EU countries rely on the concept of statehood to define their identity, interests and security. Only the Ayatollah regime of Iran has come up with this wonderful idea of Umm Al-Qura that Muslim interests are more important than Iran's national security. I cannot think of even one other state that is led by people who believe in such nonsense.

Do you still believe Iran has 3000 missiles ?

 

[ShapurII]

Do you still believe Iran has 3000 missiles ?

I never said Iran had 3,000 missiles. I know you're gullible enough to believe in "secret plasma weapons" and "Hatef nuclear submarine", but I never said that Iran had 3,000 missiles. In fact, I said exactly the opposite of that.

 

[ToddE]

Exactly. I completely agree with the first part of your post. I couldn't have worded it better myself.

Indeed. Russia is geographically closer to Iran than the US after all. They are indirectly our neighbors through the Caspian Sea. A strong Iran would be much worse for Russia than the US, who is over 10,000 kilometers away from us. Russia has tried to undermine Iran's security at each turning point in the history of the Islamic Republic. The Soviet Union was the main military provider of the Saddam's regime. After the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia continued to milk Iraq until Putin eventually threw them under the bus to get the US involved in never-ending Middle East conflicts, right next to Iran. Russia voted in favor of 4 rounds of UN Security Council resolutions that led to the economic collapse of Iran. They delayed the delivery of S300-PMU1 for 8 years when Iran needed long-range SAMs more than ever. They have refused to deliver a single SU-35 to Iran after 3 years. There is ample evidence that Russia is an enemy of Iran. Russia is undermining Iran's national security in the Caucasus region as we speak. They have partnered up with Turkey against Iran. They partnered up with Turkey against Iran in Syria and forced Assad to hand over Syria to Turkey.

All of these nations, Russia, the United States or EU countries rely on the concept of statehood to define their identity, interests and security. Only the Ayatollah regime of Iran has come up with this wonderful idea of Umm Al-Qura that Muslim interests are more important than Iran's national security. I cannot think of even one other state that is led by people who believe in such nonsense.

Good points. People forget how USSR was funneling in more weapons than EU or PGCC to their socialist Baathists that resulted in deaths of thousands of Iranians. Before this, just 3 decades earlier it tried to break SSR's out of Iran. Had IRIAF+IAF not coordinately bombed the USSR+French built Nuclear Reactor of Baathists, Tehran might have been nuked. The Mig-29/31, S-300, Kilo class saga, the sanctions in 2009. List of Russian betrayal towards Iran is long. Again thats nothing villainous of them, they are securing Russian interests for their nation. My question stays the same, whose interests are Mullahs securing when they halved the economy and compromised Iranian deterrence deliberately.

 

[Khorasan Black Flags]

I never said Iran had 3,000 missiles. I know you're gullible enough to believe in "secret plasma weapons" and "Hatef nuclear submarine", but I never said that Iran had 3,000 missiles. In fact, I said exactly the opposite of that.

Silly, brigadier General Hajizadeh, son of Mohesen Fakhrizade [father of our nuclear and quantum programs] and plenty other generals said we have secret weapons including plasma weapons. What are you even blabbering about!?

You don't even know what nuclear submarine is and you repeat rant of zionists that our weapons are photoshopped and Iran doesn't have more than 3000 missiles!!!

The dumbest comments by individuals has made on this forum!

 

[ShapurII]

Good points. People forget how USSR was funneling in more weapons than EU or PGCC to their socialist Baathists that resulted in deaths of thousands of Iranians. Before this, just 3 decades earlier it tried to break SSR's out of Iran. Had IRIAF+IAF not coordinately bombed the USSR+French built Nuclear Reactor of Baathists, Tehran might have been nuked. The Mig-29/31, S-300, Kilo class saga, the sanctions in 2009. List of Russian betrayal towards Iran is long. Again thats nothing villainous of them, they are securing Russian interests for their nation. My question stays the same, whose interests are Mullahs securing when they halved the economy and compromised Iranian deterrence deliberately.

Yeah, the list of Russian betrayals towards Iran is so long that it won't fit in one page. Bushehr nuclear reactor. Not even reactor I which had engineering complications due to using Siemens technology, but even the two nuclear reactors that are currently being completed by the Russians from scratch. The Russians are milking us to the maximum.

I think we are back to the time of the Qajars. Khamenei is an agent of the East, the reformists currently led by Rohani (after the death of Rafsanjani) are the agents of the West. When you read the JCPOA, there is not even a single paragraph that makes you think the negotiators had Iran's best intentions at heart. They gave up everything. Even Iran's right to plutonium reprocessing indefinitely! And what did Iran gain in return? Nothing.

The JCPOA was great for Europe and Russia. The whole situation in the JCPOA is like Iran is a student that hands over his homework (enriched uranium) to Russia, only for Russia (the teacher) to hand us new homework (natural uranium) again. It's embarrassing.

 

[BigMela2onin]

I think we are back to the time of the Qajars.

Worse, at least Abbas Mirza tried to reform the army and it led to victory against the Ottomans. What has the current leadership done since losing Syria and Lebanon?

 

[ShapurII]

Worse, at least Abbas Mirza tried to reform the army and it led to victory against the Ottomans. What has the current leadership done since losing Syria and Lebanon?

The IR has had people who managed to save Iran temprarily, like Chamran, or maybe even General Soleimani. Ironically, all of these figures have been killed in strange ways. Chamran was killed by friendly fire and Soleimani was assassinated by Trump. Who knows? Maybe it was somebody in the system that thought Soleimani was doing more than he should?

 

[Persian Gulf]

users are advised to avoid responding to trolls and to report their posts instead

 

[Musings]

Anything else off topic or personal attacks - straight ban

 

[Kyussis]

Do you see, in times of war and propaganda, how infiltrators and hypocrites show their true colors? Infiltrators, moreover, are a far cry from the old forum.