Iran Plans to Buy Chinese J-10C Instead of Russian Su-35

[Lulldapull]

Are you talking about China?

What are you even going on about? Living in a typical Hindutva delusion.

China buys 90% of Iran's oils despite sanctions. China has built a railroad to Iran despite sanctions. China signed a $400 billion trade and investment deal with Iran four years ago despite sanctions.

You're literally just making up fairytales and spinning them as facts, typical Hindutva.

Buddy it took a decade for Russians to supply those down graded S-300’s and 29 years to wrap up the Bushehr NPP. Any doubts……ask the iranis here about this beautiful experience.

Why China can’t sell Jack shiit to Iran……you need to ask your gubment no?

@shapurzolaktaf @ShapurII @mangekyo @Kyussis @Persian Gulf @Mehdipersian @vsdoc @Muhammad45 @Hack-Hook

 

[RealNapster]

Pakistan you could argue sometimes too generous if that's the thinking

If we can issue passport to an Algerian diplomat within 24 hours just so that he can present cause of Algerian independence in UN session, share nuclear blueprints with Iran, Iraq, And Libya. Send it's F-16 pilots to turkey after failed Turkish military coup. Pakistan can atleast host 2 dozen Iranian J-10Cs and it's pilots for a while.

 

[Ali_Baba]

nah ker lull.....tum yaar Pakistani defence forum say damag ke lasi bana rahay ho.

when i say they missed the bus as far as their AF goes then you of all the ppl should know better, that of all the three arms of a country's armed forces AF is the hardest, financially demanding and the most time-consuming.
So isreal is all set to attack iran in a matter of months n this time with the u.s. how the fu@#k iran intends to induct new ac and make them operational in a matter of months.
for starters they need quality ac right now at the very least 4.5 gen. so the ac need to come out of the stock of PLAAF. which i dont see happening.
them if AVIC by some superhuman miracle delivers the ac in say 6 months ( which in my analysis would be too late for iran). Then Iran needs to grapple with pilot training, which for a AF coming from legacy 3rd gen ac tp 4.6 gen ac will be impossible to achieve in months. this in addition to developing training manuals, service manuals, tactics, pilots/air crews familiarization with the ac etc.

this in addition to developing a whole eco sys, like the radars, awacs, sam sys etc as 40 ac alone would just be shot out of the sky on the first day without support

All the above takes time lull bhai, something iran does not have.

As for ur second part, the american tankers were refueling the isreali war plane in iranian airspace during the whole time. hope u get the ans.

ps the above steps to follow if u want to build a quality AF which would be able to go toe to toe with the best...now that takes time....baki if u want to build an AF in which pilots only know how to land n take off the u can certainly do that in a matter of months.

one example i repeat again n again ie SSG was to be expanded from a brigade strength to a Division plus strength. it took them more than a decade to go from 4 battalions to 9 battalions. Even then, the 9th was a company or 2 short.
This happens when u dont want to compromise on quality.....if PA just wanted to increase strength, then it could have done that in days....but quality takes time

Iran has no choice but to try and move down that path, I think they can do it and i don't think it is as hard as you make it out either. The Iranians are a smart people, and once they have the tools, they will be able to make full use of them quickly. The problem for Iran has always the poor decision making of their mullahs, not their professionals.

You only have to look at how much of their own ecosystem they have built at home despite being under the most severe of sanctions to understand how capable they are. Much of what Iran has done and achieved, Pakistan has either not started on, or are decades behind Iran interms of capability to do right now.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Russian era of aerial supremacy is already over. Its a fact. China at least in the electronic sector is ahead of Russians. Heck even Russia buys electronic parts for its jets from China.

There is no doubt Chinese companies will leave Russian Sukhoi behind in every area.

Once China was importer of Soviet technology, nowadays, they have their own versions. Deserves respect

Problem with J-10 is that it doesn't have the required duration. It cannot remain in sky for a long period and needs to refuel. An other problem is that it cannot do much against a combination of F-35 and F-22 assisted by AWACS.

The F35s represent a small portion of the fleet for IAF. The bulk of the operations were done by F15/F16s.

Yes, the USA supports Israel, but even when you look at the current set of operations that the USA did, it was a specific targeted operation with B2s/F22s against one target. The USA wants to move its focus from the middle east to east Asia and China.

The purpose of having an air force is not to "beat" Israel or anyone else, it is to change the "cost" calculus that any operation is simply not worth the cost itself and that calculation forms part of the deterrence cost. Right now, Iran has no real deterrence to the IAF.

If Iran demonstrated the ability to go after air-to-air refuellers, then would NATO / USAF fly so liberally close to Iranian air force? The answer would be no. That would force a reduction in the tempo of IAF operations against Iran and move the operation into a window that is manageable by Irans AD and air force. Right now, Iran's airspace does not have to be contested at all. It is a free for all for the IAF.

So, yes, if China is willing to provide J-35AEs, then that should be part of the mix, but it would be short sighted to suggest you don't need other types of fighters. Even the PAF, which faces a much larger enemy than Iran does in Israel, is planning on a fleet of JF17PFX, J10CEs to operate alongside stealth platforms like the Kaan and the J-35AE. You have to ask why? The PAF, knows what it is doing, right ?

We have to go for Chinese J-31 or the naval version J-35. If Chinese government restricts foreign export of these items then we have no choice but to pursue a local project.

It is time accept that right now, Iran cannot develop and field a 4th gen platform, so the talk of developing and deploying a 5th gen platform makes no sense. Iran has to stop tinkering with the concept of "pursuing a local project, Iran has tried for decades and failed. It will continue to fail for years to come. Right now, Iran has to buy off the shelf as quickly as it can, the capability gap in the Iranian air force simply cannot be ignored anymore on the hope of some mythical home grown project that Iranian industry cannot hope to deliver on

Even if eventually, it becomes inferior to Chinese ones, good point would be that it can be manufactured at will. It can be upgraded whenever deemed necessary.

You need an effective level of capability and deterrence now, I would have hoped that would be apparent after the failings in the 12day war ...

 

[Ali_Baba]

If we can issue passport to an Algerian diplomat within 24 hours just so that he can present cause of Algerian independence in UN session, share nuclear blueprints with Iran, Iraq, And Libya. Send it's F-16 pilots to turkey after failed Turkish military coup. Pakistan can atleast host 2 dozen Iranian J-10Cs and it's pilots for a while.

It is both difficult, and not worth being so proactive to help someone, who refuse to help themselves. Every problem that Iran faces now, is down to its own decision making.

Everyone.

They could have purchased anything from China, that Pakistan has purchased to date since everything Pakistan has purchased are export models, but they choose to not do that. Pakistan has to face off India, and barely has enough to do that. Iran has money(well - lots of free oil it can sell for a premium), they just need to accept that they need to spend some of it now, rather than having expectations of a nearly bankrupt country like Pakistan to provide material support to them that Pakistan cannot afford.

If Iran does purchase J10CEs, then Pakistan can help host them for training purposes, as long as Iran funds that appropriately. Iran cant expect Pakistan to carry the cost for it !

 

[SteppeWolff]

Oh bhai please.......everybody knows the reality here no?

High school level comment? Are you kidding? China would need US permission to transfer anything to Iran. Is that clear? or do we hold your hand?

Evidently, they're far ahead of you militarily no? (the Iranians).......

Unbelievable you had the guts to type up that comment?

China doesn't need US's permission to do anything. This isn't the 90s and early 2000s. Time to update your timeline.

And talking about Iran being militarily ahead of Pakistan, even most Iranians would doubt that now after their abysmal performance in the recent war.

When you let hubris overshadow your logic, you find out the hard way. Iranians are in the process of finding out.

 

[Ali_Baba]

China doesn't need US's permission to do anything. This isn't the 90s and early 2000s. Time to update your timeline.

And talking about Iran being militarily ahead of Pakistan, even most Iranians would doubt that now after their abysmal performance in the recent war.

I would say in ballistic missile technology, and home grown radars and SAMs, they are miles ahead of Pakistan. Miles. The performance of the AD/IADS of Iran in the 12day war was compromised due to local sabotage taking out their systems before they could get activated. In TP1/2, they managed to fend off alot of the IAFs operations, which is why the IDF has to resort to local spies, and special forces operations to take out the AD/IADS before the main operation could kick in.

 

[SteppeWolff]

Pakistan can, if Iran asks, train Iranian pilots. Temporarily station Iranian J-10Cs in Pakistan till the time Iranian pilots are ready and they have accumulated around 30+ J-10Cs. This way they can ensure that the J-10cs (first batch of 8-10) is not destroyed by Israel upon arrival in Iran .

Iran can also have annual air force exercises, one with China, one with Pakistan, and one trilateral exercises involving Pakistan, China, and Iran (maybe even turkey). This way Iranian pilots will quickly learn battle planing and how to conduct real action.

All of this in return for what?

 

[Waz]

Till the start of war beidou was used as a backup in Iran government and military equipment after the war gps turn off on those and beidou becom the main thing

Keep it turned off. I'm pretty sure it was used against you by the IAF to enhance accuracy.

 

[Waz]

Missiles can do only one thing -- kill. Whether in offense or defense, that is all a missile can do.

But an air force is a different matter. An air force is flexible in all mission profiles, from deterrence to offense to defense. Missiles cannot defend airspace sovereignty, but an air force can. Missiles cannot present deterrence, but an air force can. Missiles cannot perform humanitarian missiles, but an air force can. The list of what an air force can do outweigh what missiles can do

There is NO substitute for an air force. Imbecilic people have gone around in recent years writing about how drones and missiles are all you need.

 

[Hack-Hook]

To be honest J-16 makes more sense for Iran.

China is not allowed to sell any flanker based airplane to iran

 

[Hack-Hook]

Keep it turned off. I'm pretty sure it was used against you by the IAF to enhance accuracy.

Realistically on commercial equipment like navigation system and cellphone you can't do that but on military grade equipment you have the choice to do so

 

[Ali_Baba]

It depends on Iran, not China. US doesn't allow anyone to buy Iran oil but China buys every last drop of it, this is how much China listens to US.

This also means that China has an incentive to protect this oil supply, aswell. Esp now there is a cheaper overland route as well for it.

There still was an issue/problem from Chinas side, with China historically asking for payment in dollars and not oil for military procurements. Maybe that will change from China's side?

 

[RealNapster]

It is both difficult, and not worth being so proactive to help someone, who refuse to help themselves. Every problem that Iran faces now, is down to its own decision making.

Everyone.

They could have purchased anything from China, that Pakistan has purchased to date since everything Pakistan has purchased are export models, but they choose to not do that. Pakistan has to face off India, and barely has enough to do that. Iran has money(well - lots of free oil it can sell for a premium), they just need to accept that they need to spend some of it now, rather than having expectations of a nearly bankrupt country like Pakistan to provide material support to them that Pakistan cannot afford.

If Iran does purchase J10CEs, then Pakistan can help host them for training purposes, as long as Iran funds that appropriately. Iran cant expect Pakistan to carry the cost for it !

I agree. They are in this due to their own pride and ignorance. They were not fond of spending on air force because they were the so-called missile force and had the capability to fire 3000 missiles in one hour.

But, then we saw the 12 day war.

But this shouldn't prevent us from oreventing destabilization of our single "brotherly" bordering country which is still not completely hostile to us. And we are speaking of 910 km border. Because we all know who is next.

 

[RealNapster]

All of this in return for what?

In return for an israel-free bordering country with which you share 900+ km border. What else do you want ?

They pay for everything concerning them and we should be willing to help and accommodate them.