Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[Emirzad]

I this the most reasonable idea I´ve read until now.

Yasin+Kowsar let enough autonomy to integrate weapons, test equipment, avionics and tactics. Depending on Russian aircraft will kill or at least finish the aeronautical industry after years of truly economic yihad. Even Russia are right now turning into iranian aeronautical industries to keep up their airbus. Russian aircraft will give enough air power to answer any US or israeli adventure. I am suspicious that the lack of response of Iran at Israel is related to real air and naval power to escalate any conflict after first and second missiles answers.

But that is another issue.

Everybody here agree that IRIAF needs desperately a good aircraft as soon as possible.

Developing Yasin+Kowsar Iran should be the second priority.

This is what I say as well, the lies and propoganda by aviation officials/fanboys have overshadowed real accomplishments of the Iranian combat aviation sector. I said it before, now after all these years, with an investment by the government and strict management by tough IRGC officials (hypothetical), Iranian combat aviation can pick on its own with mild foriegn support. Iran now can field the following Indigenous systems:

- 4.0 gen Light Fighter + its own AT/CAS (Kowsar+Yasin)
- Awacs-Maritime patrol aircraft (IR-140 Simorgh)
- MALE-HALE-ISTAR UCAVs (Kaman 22, Shahed 129/147149, Mohajer-6/10) + Jet-powered A2A UAV+ Stealth Flying Wing UCAV
- Helicopters Shahed 285, Toufan
- Weaponry: Long-range heavy BVR (Fakour-90), HOBS imaging WVR (Azaraksh), PGMs, Long-range ALCM, AShCM, ALBM.
- Turbofan: Jahesh-700, Toloue 14, Turbojet: OWJ
- 4th gen avionics suite (Radars with 100+ KM tracking ranges, Local ECM both internal and pods, Datalinks, Nav/Comm, HMD)
- Extensive rebuilding and upgradation of F-4E/D, F-14

This is some serious indigenous capability. We can't just let it all go to waste because someone is giving us Yak-130 for 15 Mln and a hope for SU-35S in 2026. Russian fleet and domestic fleet of American origin should both go side by side.

J-10c never offered

funny as time of mig-35 you guys talk about 20 year old su-35 and 25 year old mig-29smt you guys even dont talk about newer mig-29m2 that

J-10C I think was not developed at that time. I am not sure. It was J-10 nonetheless which was rejected.

When I say MIG-29 I mean SMT/M/M2/K. Our current fleet can only be upgraded not re-built. I am always in favor of more MIG-29 airframes whatever the model tag is.

Exactly, but that’s the point: Iran has not the capability, even more so since it makes no sense to develop the old F-5 into something upscaled and even if, it remains at best a 4th whatever type but never a 5th generation fighter.

Otherwise this 4, 4+ or 4++ is more PR gimmick since there is no such standards

You are getting deluded by the troll members here. No Iranian official has ever claimed Kowsar to be 4+ or 5 generation. They merely call it a locally built F-5 with 4th generation technologies which is true considering its strong Avionics, Radar, Datalinking, Nav-Comm, FBW etc. Its an extensive rebuilding+upgradation program to bring a 2nd/3rd design to 4.0 Generation capabilities pretty much like KFIR, or F-20. With a modern Turbofan, AESA radar, RCS reduction etc it can go to 4+ generation but that remains to be seen. There are some signs of that being in works e.g. RAM coats have been shown, strong commitment has been shown towards domestic Turbofan development (LP of AL-222 or 31), AESA, IRST, HOTAS, HMD are no problem for Iranian industry as all exist in one form or the other... but what currently exists since 2018 is an extensively upgraded newly built/rebuilt F-5.

 

[Hack-Hook]

F-16 is also 40+ year old

F-22 is 30+ year old

What’s your point? An F-16 from 1980 And an F-16 latest block are very different planes.

And when we mention SU-35 we are implying modernized not the one they made 30 years ago. That is common sense.

Which version of f16 ?
Does mig-29 smt even comparable with f16c
Even modernized su-35 have inferior avionics and countermeasure unless Russia is willing to equip it with a certain pod. Which they yet to provide to other countries. And it uses proprietary data link that is not compatible with anything else

 

[Hack-Hook]

When I say MIG-29 I mean SMT/M/M2/K. Our current fleet can only be upgraded not re-built. I am always in favor of more MIG-29 airframes whatever the model tag is.

All mig29 are coming with pesa radar and the radar is weak compared to ibris-e of su35 .
Just look at how Ukraine mig-29 fared even against su-27
The age of pesa is finished buying anything short of aesa I s useless.

 

[tsunset]

J-10c never offered

funny as time of mig-35 you guys talk about 20 year old su-35 and 25 year old mig-29smt you guys even dont talk about newer mig-29m2 that

Most of the western counterparts for purchase dates from 1985-2006, so decades old

The rest is being delivered in 2030 (if all is normal) and barely anyone got delivered new variants of 2-4 decades dating jets which some use an airframe made 40 year ago

 

[Emirzad]

All mig29 are coming with pesa radar and the radar is weak compared to ibris-e of su35 .
Just look at how Ukraine mig-29 fared even against su-27
The age of pesa is finished buying anything short of aesa I s useless.

It's no mystery that Russian/Chinese tech has always been behind Western, but do we have a choice? SU-35S = SU-27SM, a 1970s Huge RCS airframe with a PESA and a 550 Kg heavy BVR but we have no better choice available than this to replace the decaying F-14 fleet with so let it happen.

Similarly, no one is giving us F-16 Blk 70 or F-18E/F so comparing certain MIG-29's PESA radar with theirs is not practical. Whatever is available in 4, 4+ generation category from Russia should be availed in as many numbers as possible because Russia post Ukraine war will once again try to get close to US/EU and will try to sell Iran as a bargaining chip like before.

I know I will get attacked by the entire forum probably for saying this but I trust Iranian systems more than Russian and Chinese ones because of (A) US origin of Iranian designs (B) Experience of using them in an extended war and in tense situations (C) No foriegn dependence. The entire Iranian aviation sector is built around US-origin designs which got massively upgraded over the years so modern tech like local AESA, HOBS WVR, BVR, PGMs, SOWs, ECM, Nav-Comm Datalinks etc should be pursued locally in local platforms. Let Russian YAK-130, SU-35S, MIG-29SMT, SU-24MK2 be one branch of IRIAF dependent upon foriegn supply while the other is Yasin, Kowsar, F-4E/D, F-14AM, UCAVs for now in future it can be Yasin AT, Kowsar, Another local fighter+Wingmen.

 

[Piet]

It's no mystery that Russian/Chinese tech has always been behind Western, but do we have a choice? SU-35S = SU-27SM, a 1970s Huge RCS airframe with a PESA and a 550 Kg heavy BVR but we have no better choice available than this to replace the decaying F-14 fleet with so let it happen.

Similarly, no one is giving us F-16 Blk 70 or F-18E/F so comparing certain MIG-29's PESA radar with theirs is not practical. Whatever is available in 4, 4+ generation category from Russia should be availed in as many numbers as possible because Russia post Ukraine war will once again try to get close to US/EU and will try to sell Iran as a bargaining chip like before.

I know I will get attacked by the entire forum probably for saying this but I trust Iranian systems more than Russian and Chinese ones because of (A) US origin of Iranian designs (B) Experience of using them in an extended war and in tense situations (C) No foriegn dependence. The entire Iranian aviation sector is built around US-origin designs which got massively upgraded over the years so modern tech like local AESA, HOBS WVR, BVR, PGMs, SOWs, ECM, Nav-Comm Datalinks etc should be pursued locally in local platforms. Let Russian YAK-130, SU-35S, MIG-29SMT, SU-24MK2 be one branch of IRIAF dependent upon foriegn supply while the other is Yasin, Kowsar, F-4E/D, F-14AM, UCAVs for now in future it can be Yasin AT, Kowsar, Another local fighter+Wingmen.

Agree.

Foreign inputs and components of future weaponry (=IAIAF) should be restricted to buying that which are on offer by such nations or their suppliers.

These should largely center on off-the -shelf stuff, also available elsewhere. Costs, availability, circumstances and politics, allowing of course.

Besides Iran's own knowledge-based aviation infrastructure - hard and software -co-operation with countries not exactly in step with the current rules-based order might prove less dicey.

To this end see Belorussia's Defence Initiatives. Product guide at:-

https://bte.by/upload/iblock/d39/d392bd4976024b960ad7cce369169f3d.pdf

Enjoy

Piet

 

[Hack-Hook]

Most of the western counterparts for purchase dates from 1985-2006, so decades old

The rest is being delivered in 2030 (if all is normal) and barely anyone got delivered new variants of 2-4 decades dating jets which some use an airframe made 40 year ago

Again which version ?
And again no western airplane is on offer.
So the comparison is mute

All f16

t's no mystery that Russian/Chinese tech has always been behind Western,

china was behind , right now they are close

It's no mystery that Russian/Chinese tech has always been behind Western, but do we have a choice? SU-35S = SU-27SM, a 1970s Huge RCS airframe with a PESA and a 550 Kg heavy BVR but we have no better choice available than this to replace the decaying F-14 fleet with so let it happen.

Similarly, no one is giving us F-16 Blk 70 or F-18E/F so comparing certain MIG-29's PESA radar with theirs is not practical. Whatever is available in 4, 4+ generation category from Russia should be availed in as many numbers as possible because Russia post Ukraine war will once again try to get close to US/EU and will try to sell Iran as a bargaining chip like before.

I know I will get attacked by the entire forum probably for saying this but I trust Iranian systems more than Russian and Chinese ones because of (A) US origin of Iranian designs (B) Experience of using them in an extended war and in tense situations (C) No foriegn dependence. The entire Iranian aviation sector is built around US-origin designs which got massively upgraded over the years so modern tech like local AESA, HOBS WVR, BVR, PGMs, SOWs, ECM, Nav-Comm Datalinks etc should be pursued locally in local platforms. Let Russian YAK-130, SU-35S, MIG-29SMT, SU-24MK2 be one branch of IRIAF dependent upon foriegn supply while the other is Yasin, Kowsar, F-4E/D, F-14AM, UCAVs for now in future it can be Yasin AT, Kowsar, Another local fighter+Wingmen.

we have the option of doing the right thing and build our own aircraft and develope over it
first step is being realistic about developing an air plane

 

[tsunset]

Again which version ?
And again no western airplane is on offer.
So the comparison is mute

All f16

china was behind , right now they are close

we have the option of doing the right thing and build our own aircraft and develope over it
first step is being realistic about developing an air plane

All countries in the world outside the US owning them

 

[Hack-Hook]

All countries in the world outside the US owning them

usa ones are older than most countries in the world

 

[Immortals]

we have the option of doing the right thing and build our own aircraft and develope over it
first step is being realistic about developing an air plane

You think Iran would have flying wing design if it didn’t capture RQ-170 in 2011?

You think Iran would have KH-55 based CMs if it didn’t buy some from Ukraine in 1990’s?

You think Iran would have Almas if it didn’t capture it from Israel during 2006 war?

Iran’s learns thru reverse engineering, owning and using. That is why all it can build right now is a F-5 upgrade program.

So an SU-35S purchase to replace the aging F-14 (can’t rely to keep that flying forever) and learning from latest tech can be beneficial to whatever r&d program currently exists to build an Iranian fighter jet.

Engine is still a huge stumbling block, avionics, a powerful AESA radar, ECW pod, targeting pod, etc are all other critical technologies. Reducing radiation emissions, etc.

Even for an unmanned 7th gen fighter (which many preach) you still need a high performance jet engine and even more capable sub systems since now you don’t have pilot inside cockpit.

You can’t built a unmanned 7th gen fighter with Owj or turbo prop, let’s be serious now.

 

[Tehrani021]

So an SU-35S purchase to replace the aging F-14 (can’t rely to keep that flying forever) and learning from latest tech can be beneficial to whatever r&d program currently exists to build an Iranian fighter jet.

I wonder how many times this particular point has been mentioned by various people. It's a no brainer.

 

[Emirzad]

china was behind , right now they are close

Chinese aviation industry massively picked up in 2010s. They were flying J-7 and J-8II as their most numerous fighters with few Russian Flankers some 20 years ago. Iran missed an opportunity by not focusing on manned combat aviation considering how lucky Iran was to have a top-notch league of war-hardened legendary pilots and technicians in 90s. Our planes were highly modern for their times too.

we have the option of doing the right thing and build our own aircraft and develope over it
first step is being realistic about developing an air plane

As I said before our local combat aviation sector is a circus of corruption, deception, and budget cuts by the government. Domestic production capability is there, there is no doubt about it, even if they increase the budget of IRIAF to ~1.5-2 Bln USD/year which is peanuts for the world's 17th largest GDP without debt, the local platforms can create an entirely self-reliant section of IRIAF for which we won't even need a bolt to be imported. Russian fleet can be procured/modernized alongside it. If the Ukraine war taught us anything its that every airframe counts in the end and more you can produce locally, more easy it becomes to fight an elongated war.

 

[Immortals]

I wonder how many times this particular point has been mentioned by various people. It's a no brainer.

They refuse to listen. People think SU-35 is expensive don’t realize how expensive it is to maintain F-14.

F-14 used to cost US Airforce $35K/HR to operate! That’s in 90’s dollars, would be over 50K/HR today!

Even if you say Iran can do miracles and bring that cost down by 75% that’s still an enormous amount of money to keep the F-14 flying. It likely drains Iran of tens of millions a dollar year in maintenance and overhaul.

Then you have the “no airforce crowd” who think in 10 years Iran will be able to unmanned F-22.

HOW? HOW!?

That’s like me saying I can’t build a peykan, but don’t worry I will build a self driving Ferrari-esque car in 15 years!

What can’t Iran do right now?

Can’t build anything close to AL-31 engine (forget the 6th gen engine US is currently building which is dual class)

Can’t build anything close to a modern long range AESA radar that can fit in a fighter jet

Can’t build anything close to a titanium heavy airframe which is the staple to any modern fighter. Turkey had to import the largest 3D titanium laser in the world for creating its TFX project (Kowsar is mostly composite).

Now add in sub systems, ECW pods, targeting pods, etc.


But sure in 15 years Iran will have unmanned fighter jets that can stand toe to toe with SU-35 and F-18.

It’s like fantasy world here

 

[jauk]

Then you have the “no airforce crowd” who think in 10 years Iran will be able to unmanned F-22.

HOW? HOW!?

Don’t worry about these things. Far above your pay grade.

 

[Hack-Hook]

You think Iran would have flying wing design if it didn’t capture RQ-170 in 2011?

You think Iran would have KH-55 based CMs if it didn’t buy some from Ukraine in 1990’s?

You think Iran would have Almas if it didn’t capture it from Israel during 2006 war?

Iran’s learns thru reverse engineering, owning and using. That is why all it can build right now is a F-5 upgrade program.

So an SU-35S purchase to replace the aging F-14 (can’t rely to keep that flying forever) and learning from latest tech can be beneficial to whatever r&d program currently exists to build an Iranian fighter jet.

Engine is still a huge stumbling block, avionics, a powerful AESA radar, ECW pod, targeting pod, etc are all other critical technologies. Reducing radiation emissions, etc.

Even for an unmanned 7th gen fighter (which many preach) you still need a high performance jet engine and even more capable sub systems since now you don’t have pilot inside cockpit.

You can’t built a unmanned 7th gen fighter with Owj or turbo prop, let’s be serious now.

We have mig-29 that everyone loves
We have f-14
I don't see anything based on them
You think su-35 will be different