Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[ToddE]

The plane itself is one thing but what about the avionics, jamming, radar, weaponary, engine etc. Its nowhere near 4th generation, its all pre 1980s level at best. I understand Iran is under sanctions but the quality of airforce is not good enough. They need to move in a different direction.

"I don't know something so it must not exist" ?

Here are the extreme details. Rest of published details you can find here https://www.key.aero/article/keeping-iranian-air-force-f-5ef-tiger-ii-fleet-service.

Now please tell, which Advanced Trained/CAS/Light CAP available to Iran can rival this plane in these specific roles including YAK-130? Do you understand that lack of its existence or timely delivery costed hundreds of Iranians their lives because SOWs, drones could not be stopped once ALB/CMs took out Search n Track Assets of IADS.

 

[Ali_Baba]

There is no harm in Iran attempting to pursue local projects in terms of the build of its aviation capabilities, but that should not be at the expense of actual military capability that is needed now. The two can be done in parallel. Pakistan is demonstrating this reasonably well and with far fewer financial and technical resources at its disposal than Iran has.

Iran needs to take a deep dive to address why its local projects are not coming to fruition. Is it financial, if so, allocate more resources. Is it manufacturing capabilities, or split-brain via competing interests that do not take into account the overall strategic picture etc, I wont attempt to iterate every possibilities. Someone needs to take charge and effect a strategy that can deliver an overall security framework that is viable and not fall into the trap of "only local, or only external purchases but a blend of the two", and it must not at the cost of actual military capability it needs now while it waits for these local programmes to mature.

I believe that more money has been allocated, and the air force should get enough capacity to help it develop the capability to defend Iran's "offensive" capabilities from that money such that they do not become degraded again to the same extent as was seen during the war where daily missile launch rates were dropping off significantly.

The initial order of Su35s/Su30s ( if the reports are true and they do indeed "finally" get delivered ) are a welcome first step in that direction, though it will need to be a sustained procurement programme to address the issues that Iran has.

 

[Ali_Baba]

"I don't know something so it must not exist" ?

Here are the extreme details. Rest of published details you can find here https://www.key.aero/article/keeping-iranian-air-force-f-5ef-tiger-ii-fleet-service.

Now please tell, which Advanced Trained/CAS/Light CAP available to Iran can rival this plane in these specific roles including YAK-130? Do you understand that lack of its existence or timely delivery costed hundreds of Iranians their lives because SOWs, drones could not be stopped once ALB/CMs took out Search n Track Assets of IADS.

If this is indeed as capable as you say, then what is stopping Iran from building more of theses? Where is the issue? And why?

 

[ToddE]

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This is to some extent in line with BT claims that along with 48 SU-35S, IRIAF will get 12 SU-30SM/SM2 as well to be used as dual seat trainers for SU-35S taking the tally to 60 Super flankers overall since SU-30SM is borderline SU-35S itself.

These are his claims overall

60 SU-35S (48) + SU-30SM (12)
24 MIG-29SMT
30 SU-24MK2
36 YAK-130

AL-224 (Saljut) Turbofans TOT

What does the translation say and what's supposed to be in the images? I don't have an instagram account.

Btw, has the link been posted to the leak apparently showing various items on order for at least 16 Su-35 for IRIAF, which are said to be delivered between 2025-2027?

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Satellite images showed several Su-30SM2 parked at a Russian production plant, few days later they suddenly disappeared. This is the same location from which AN-124 cargo planes flew into Iran during this period. Author is suggesting that Iran may have received Su-30SM2 CKD kits instead of the Yak-130 trainers everyone assumed.

He is not claiming it happened, just suggesting.

 

[ToddE]

If this is indeed as capable as you say, then what is stopping Iran from building more of theses? Where is the issue? And why?

Extreme budget cut.

 

[Flotilla]

There is no harm in Iran attempting to pursue local projects in terms of the build of its aviation capabilities, but that should not be at the expense of actual military capability that is needed now. The two can be done in parallel. Pakistan is demonstrating this reasonably well and with far fewer financial and technical resources at its disposal than Iran has.

Iran needs to take a deep dive to address why its local projects are not coming to fruition. Is it financial, if so, allocate more resources. Is it manufacturing capabilities, or split-brain via competing interests that do not take into account the overall strategic picture etc, I wont attempt to iterate every possibilities. Someone needs to take charge and effect a strategy that can deliver an overall security framework that is viable and not fall into the trap of "only local, or only external purchases but a blend of the two", and it must not at the cost of actual military capability it needs now while it waits for these local programmes to mature.

I believe that more money has been allocated, and the air force should get enough capacity to help it develop the capability to defend Iran's "offensive" capabilities from that money such that they do not become degraded again to the same extent as was seen during the war where daily missile launch rates were dropping off significantly.

The initial order of Su35s/Su30s ( if the reports are true and they do indeed "finally" get delivered ) are a welcome first step in that direction, though it will need to be a sustained procurement programme to address the issues that Iran has.

The problem It is that rebuilding an entire Air force takes years. And Israel is again pressing for the second round. There is no time to build a modern and large Air force in short term.

On the other hand this power must be expend, again, in new missiles, to re-stock all those used. Anyway Irán decreased the daily rate of fire not because lack of units or looses. They did because the damage done was enough and with all anti missiles gone there was not necessary to use a large barrage to his sistematically all objetives.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Extreme budget cut.

I hope these cuts can be reversed now given the budget increase, as they will be very capable platforms to help take down all of the IDF drones that escape the ground bases IADS at minimum over Iran itself.

 

[ToddE]

The problem It is that rebuilding an entire Air force takes years. And Israel is again pressing for the second round. There is no time to build a modern and large Air force in short term.

On the other hand this power must be expend, again, in new missiles, to re-stock all those used. Anyway Irán decreased the daily rate of fire not because lack of units or looses. They did because the damage done was enough and with all anti missiles gone there was not necessary to use a large barrage to his sistematically all objetives.

Good post. Highest amount of civilian damage in Israel came from later strikes of IRGCASF even though wave size were smaller. Lets not forget Israelis were running from from cities at that point.

IMO IRGCASF wasted missiles on military targets during initial days. They moved to eye for an eye doctrine very quickly, Strikes on Bazan Oil field after South pars, or destruction of Weizman institute+Gav Tech Park after SNDP target came within few hours. Israelis started attacking civilians in cities in frustration so IRGCASF moved to same philosophy. This should have been the SOP from beginning. But anyhow, they performed brilliantly, not deterred for a second, kept on penetrating US+Israeli layers of ABM/AD shields.

 

[Ali_Baba]

The problem It is that rebuilding an entire Air force takes years. And Israel is again pressing for the second round. There is no time to build a modern and large Air force in short term.

On the other hand this power must be expend, again, in new missiles, to re-stock all those used. Anyway Irán decreased the daily rate of fire not because lack of units or looses. They did because the damage done was enough and with all anti missiles gone there was not necessary to use a large barrage to his sistematically all objetives.

There are platforms like Mig29s that can be easily inducted and operationalised, as well as upgrades of existing platforms to make them more capable. I don't view this as rebuilding exercise as all the ingredients are already there. What Iran needs to be able to do is keep the drones out of Iran's airspace for this stage, if it can do that, then Israel's ability to precise hit anything of value in Iran goes down massively. The Su30/35's are a new strategic procurement for sure, but within Iran's ability to induct on mass for its use case for Israel for this stage of the conflict.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

Stop polluting the technical thread with your theatrics and AI written trash, you have ZERO inside scoop or evidence to back up the stupidity you post here.

Dear @Persian Gulf, Deliberate attempts at spreading misinformation, disguised as "inside" information should be discouraged in technical threads like this IMO.

You're incapable of answering these questions and you're dodging them with every kind of defeat. You want to censor me because I'm exposing your lies. Reza hasn't responded today; I haven't seen him in the group, but I hope he'll reply to you.

You're hiding behind the Persian Gulf moderator, but I hope he'll ask you for answers. The only one with truly artificial intelligence is you here, incapable of providing any proof of your claims about Kowsar.

Well done to Reza for exposing yourself here.

 

[ToddE]

There is an ongoing rumor on twitter that face of corruption Ali Larijani is advocating for FC-1/JF-17 as light fighter but Vahedi (IRIAF chief) is asking for J-10CE and rightly so. Russia and China used to have monopoly over both fighters because of Russian Turbofans but right now the latest blocks are 100% Chinese so chances are better compared to anything from Russia. Russia has backed out of Arms supply to Iran atleast three times while Chinese did it once.

Rumored acquisitions

60 SU-35S (48) + SU-30SM2 (12) (Journalistic claim/Published article)
60? J-10CE (OSINT claim)
24 MIG-29SMT (Journalistic claim/Published article)
Addition MIG-29 (Government official claim)
30 x SU-24MK2 (Journalistic claim/Published article)
36 x YAK-130 E/M? (Published source)

Uncertain future
60-70 x Kowsar Advanced Trainer/CAS/Light CAP (Domestic production, Halted assembly lines)

Retiring Airframes
40 F-14A/AM
64 F-4E/D
44 F-7N
23 Mirage F1E/Q
10/40 SU-22M3/M4

If this comes true for IRIAF, while IRGCASF is already digging new missile cities, test firing new SLVs/Missiles and IRIADF is getting new Khordads SAMS ... we can safely say the increased budget is showing its effects.

 

[ToddE]

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Russia Taking Iranian route. Russian forces are deploying Turbojet powered Shahed-238 with R-60 WVRs.

Iran uses Karrars with Azarakhsh and Majid A2A but range is compromised in both cases because Search n Track is done by missiles seeker itself. They did show Karrar with Datalink Antennas which means IADS or fighters may share track info with Karrar from their own Radars. This will allow the WVR missile to attain its full 35-40 KM. The same Karrar I believe also had onboard EO/IRST so that may also allow the range of WVR. Considering the success of Shahed-136/238, the idea of WVR deployment on them wont be a bad idea either.

 

[Ali_Baba]

There is an ongoing rumor on twitter that face of corruption Ali Larijani is advocating for FC-1/JF-17 as light fighter but Vahedi (IRIAF chief) is asking for J-10CE and rightly so. Russia and China used to have monopoly over both fighters because of Russian Turbofans but right now the latest blocks are 100% Chinese so chances are better compared to anything from Russia. Russia has backed out of Arms supply to Iran atleast three times while Chinese did it once.

Rumored acquisitions

60 SU-35S (48) + SU-30SM2 (12) (Journalistic claim/Published article)
60? J-10CE (OSINT claim)
24 MIG-29SMT (Journalistic claim/Published article)
Addition MIG-29 (Government official claim)
30 x SU-24MK2 (Journalistic claim/Published article)
36 x YAK-130 E/M? (Published source)

Uncertain future
60-70 x Kowsar Advanced Trainer/CAS/Light CAP (Domestic production, Halted assembly lines)

Retiring Airframes
40 F-14A/AM
64 F-4E/D
44 F-7N
23 Mirage F1E/Q
10/40 SU-22M3/M4

If this comes true for IRIAF, while IRGCASF is already digging new missile cities, test firing new SLVs/Missiles and IRIADF is getting new Khordads SAMS ... we can safely say the increased budget is showing its effects.

As of now, the J10CE is the best performer out of the J10CE/JF17 pairing. The upside is capability now on a larger more capable airframe with better persistence and payload capabilities. The downside of the J10CE is that it is unlikely see a mid-life upgrade, as China's attention is moving towards the J-36/J-35/J-50 platforms and J10CE is on reduced manufacturing line even now. The Chinese are moving very fast and I suspect the J10CE will be left behind? So, while the J10CE will be fully supported by China until the end of its lifespan, the probability of a J10DE and an upgrade path for existing J10CEs to a new standard won't be there unless a customer pays for the R&D and design of a new variant. That tends to be the Chinese approach on exports, I could be wrong but I have seen enough to know they approach things very differently. The Chinese members such as @Michael or @Deino can opine on the future roadmap for the J10 platform.

The JF17 is the backbone of the PAF and it will see continuous upgrades and enhancements over its lifespan by the PAF through new weapons additions. There maybe opportunity for Iran to contribute via China to this as well via the FC-1 variant which would the variant on offer.

As long as Iran buys either one of the two platforms from China to increase procurement bandwidth and therefore the size of the Iranian air force as quickly as possible then that is good, as the Russians are constrained on delivery capacity right now.

 

[Michael]

As of now, the J10CE is the best performer out of the J10CE/JF17 pairing. The upside is capability now on a larger more capable airframe with better persistence and payload capabilities. The downside of the J10CE is that it is unlikely see a mid-life upgrade, as China's attention is moving towards the J-36/J-35/J-50 platforms and J10CE is on reduced manufacturing line even now. The Chinese are moving very fast and I suspect the J10CE will be left behind? So, while the J10CE will be fully supported by China until the end of its lifespan, the probability of a J10DE and an upgrade path for existing J10CEs to a new standard won't be there unless a customer pays for the R&D and design of a new variant. That tends to be the Chinese approach on exports, I could be wrong but I have seen enough to know they approach things very differently. The Chinese members such as @Michael or @Deino can opine on the future roadmap for the J10 platform.

The JF17 is the backbone of the PAF and it will see continuous upgrades and enhancements over its lifespan by the PAF through new weapons additions. There maybe opportunity for Iran to contribute via China to this as well via the FC-1 variant which would the variant on offer.

As long as Iran buys either one of the two platforms from China to increase procurement bandwidth and therefore the size of the Iranian air force as quickly as possible then that is good, as the Russians are constrained on delivery capacity right now.

Stop discussing the J-10CE/JF-17B3 in this thread; the Iranians have no interest in these aircraft. Especially not in front of Mr. Emirzad, who believes the Yak-130 is the most suitable fighter jet for the Iranian Air Force.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Stop discussing the J-10CE/JF-17B3 in this thread; the Iranians have no interest in these aircraft. Especially not in front of Mr. Emirzad, who believes the Yak-130 is the most suitable fighter jet for the Iranian Air Force.

Ok, but - what if any, prospects is there for a future J10D variant, i.e. a future development of the platform, or is the J10CE the last version ?