Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[BigMela2onin]

China went where exactly? (P)GCC is still a ball sucker of US/NATO, selling their bulk hydrocarbon to west on which petrodollar stands to this day. They host US/NATO military bases, aligning themselves with whatever comes out of NATO, EU, US, Israeli HQs. They do not do that for China. Just to have some level of presence in middle east, PLAN has to have a ineffective base in Djibouti while western Militaries have dozens of bases and footholds on mainland PGCC. Chinese are merchants at best, their defence pacts mean nothing.

China is increasingly arming arab states with drones and now fighters in Egypt and is building a ballistic missile force for Saudi Arabia. They have also voiced support for UAE's claim on Tonbs. They have not replaced the US but in a conflict between PGCC and Iran, they will side with PGCC; this could easily have been reversed if Iranian leadership had any sense.

This does not mean at all that Iran is being run by strategic geniuses either. They could have cashed out Russian weakness at the height of Ukraine war when Russia was importing TOTs, drones, missiles, UCAVs and what not from Iran. They failed miserably, now they will suck Trump's balls in name of "talks" over 60% enriched U to which Iranian national tied.

Agreed.

And by the way I dont see much controversy in J-10 vs SU-35S. If J-10A/B rejection story is true, IRIAF opted for SU-35S instead, which is obviously a better choice, being twin-engine air superiority behemoth. In favor of SU-35S, they rejected J-10A/B, SU-27SM3 and probably did not consider MIG-35 either. Case of chasing best product at best. Instead of focusing on these 4-4+ gen, they should now divert their entire attention to 5th gen from wherever the tech is available.

J-10A was offered before Su-35S was an option as far as I know. The Ukraine war was a fluke that allowed potential sale of Su-35S to Iran, so rejection at that time was a mistake. Now that the Ukraine is winding down, Su-35 may go the way of S-300.

Or South Africa or South Korea or Brazil or Taiwan... list goes on. We can even list what Iran could have got from these countries had the intentions to revive the airforce existed.

What exactly do South Africa or Brazil have to offer IRIAF? The most advanced fighter in both Air Forces is a Swedish fighter. Brazil's upgraded F-5s are upgraded by "Israel" and SAAF development prior to end of Apartheid was all tech transfer from "Israel."
And I doubt Taiwan or SK would be willing to provide any technical assistance to Iran.

Problem is, land forces are not facing a direct invasion from any side due to one simple reason, terrain. Iran is one of the most mountainous countries on planet earth and luckily its most likely invasion points are all gaurded by military buffer zones or never ending mountain ranges. Land forces are fair to decently equipped with MBTs. IRGC is powerful enough to destroy any invader at borders with their GMLRS/BM/CM showers if need arises. IRIAF is a different story. The force was killed on purpose.

My point was rather that wasteful military projects is not an IRIAF exclusive issue but rather an issue throughout Iranian military development.

I am not an expert on North Korean military but Amnok (2) is re-welded 40 years old hull of Soviet Krivak vessel, retrofitted with porbably FAJR-27 guns imported from Iran and some manpads as AD. Iranian Mowj (7 and counting) are new hulls with much better firepower. Their sensor suite though is not fully installed, but is better as well. Forget Mowj, a single IRGCN corvette provides more firepower and air defence capability than what two Amnok cant combine produce.

Mowj is indeed better in anti-air capacity but is too overloaded for it's hull as we can see from Sahand capsizing in port. Amnok has equivalent anti-ship capability and has also been shown launching LACMs which Mowj lacks.

Sinpo is a modified 50 years old Romeo class rebuilt hull.

And carries SLBMs will Fateh does not, while there is still no sight of Besat.

There is no evidence of M-2020 MBT being deployed or in use or being mass produced either. Karrar MBT has atleast been tested in field.

Karrar is an upgrade of a foreign tank. Zulfiqar was a failure while at least double digit numbers of M-2020 have been seen.

Have they shown the fleet of them?

At least 4 on parade, and shown flying with more than double the payload of S-129 or M-6. We will likely never know specifications in detail regarding sensors and engines. And there is no Iranian equivalent to Saetbyol-4 to even argue about.

 

[sahureka2]

No evidence these are any good, or anything more than static display.

But not even the opposite, that is that it is actually a new large frigate, therefore the best thing to do is to wait a few months, perhaps less than a year, when and if it will be launched and if and when it will carry out sea trials and, as often happens, live fire tests with the weapons on board. Only then will we be able to pass judgment and we will know if you are right or the majority of the OSINT experts who write online.
But the biggest mistake we can make is to believe that the North Koreans are incapable of such feats, but this way of thinking certainly leads nowhere.
What is certain today is the evidence, users with their negative way of thinking, wrote that the DPRK was far from making intercontinental missiles, far from making solid-fuel rocket engines, far from making cruise missiles, far from making vertical launch missiles, far from making modern FACs, far from making miniaturized nuclear warheads, far from having naval gas turbines, far from making three-dimensional radars, far from making modern weapons in general and then at the deadline of the calendar Kim Jong-un had himself photographed or filmed with these systems and weapons.
with this answer I close the Off-Topic, eventually a discussion dedicated to North Korea is open

 

[That_Guy]

But not even the opposite, that is that it is actually a new large frigate, therefore the best thing to do is to wait a few months, perhaps less than a year, when and if it will be launched and if and when it will carry out sea trials and, as often happens, live fire tests with the weapons on board. Only then will we be able to pass judgment and we will know if you are right or the majority of the OSINT experts who write online.
But the biggest mistake we can make is to believe that the North Koreans are incapable of such feats, but this way of thinking certainly leads nowhere.
What is certain today is the evidence, users with their negative way of thinking, wrote that the DPRK was far from making intercontinental missiles, far from making solid-fuel rocket engines, far from making cruise missiles, far from making vertical launch missiles, far from making modern FACs, far from making miniaturized nuclear warheads, far from having naval gas turbines, far from making three-dimensional radars, far from making modern weapons in general and then at the deadline of the calendar Kim Jong-un had himself photographed or filmed with these systems and weapons.

I don't think anyone was saying the DPRK was far from making a ICBM, as we've known they have the technology for the last 20 years, just unrefined until recently.

The issue here is that the DPRK has shown capabilities that once looked at closely end up either being just repacked second hand Chinese or russian systems, or just outright fake.

Remember their "modern tank" system, which ended up being exposed as a fake, reskinned t-72, and t-50?

 

[sahureka2]

I don't think anyone was saying the DPRK was far from making a ICBM, as we've known they have the technology for the last 20 years, just unrefined until recently.

The issue here is that the DPRK has shown capabilities that once looked at closely end up either being just repacked second hand Chinese or russian systems, or just outright fake.

Remember their "modern tank" system, which ended up being exposed as a fake, reskinned t-72, and t-50?

out of respect for other users, to avoid continuing Off-Topic, as I wrote previously there is a discussion dedicated to North Korea

 

[Persian Gulf]

please stay on topic

 

[Flotilla]

But the biggest mistake we can make is to believe that the North Koreans are incapable of such feats, but this way of thinking certainly leads nowhere.

I really appreciate and applaud the technological achievements of DPRK. They succeeded in many fields like rocketry, missile technology (in some ways more than IRI) and convetional artillery.

But in aeronautical field I think IRI is further, much further than DPRK. It was IRI and not DPRK the first to re-design and fly a medium cargo aircraft (Simorgh). We have proof that even IRI reverse engineered a light combat aircraft (F5) just from the scratch. Maybe DPRK succeeded in producing Mig29 (I really doubt it) but it is different to produce under license than reverse engineer a complete aircraft. IRI overhauled Su22 with digital avionics, designed from 0 PGM for those aircraft, reverse engineered the longest ranged AA missile of West (AIM54) and the lists goes on.

Even IRI managed to be a "undercover agent" of Lockheed Martin, overhauling other users C130s that were deliberately left out by the builders (US).

https://www.infobae.com/venezuela/2024/12/03/los-iranies-alojados-en-la-base-aerea-libertador-en-venezuela-trabajaron-con-aviones-c-130-hercules-y-f-16/

 

[ToddE]

I think that there even might be a 3rd Link.

Will investigate and get back to this.

Piet

Ok, tag me when you do.

 

[DavidKhoresht]

I don't think anyone was saying the DPRK was far from making a ICBM, as we've known they have the technology for the last 20 years, just unrefined until recently.

The issue here is that the DPRK has shown capabilities that once looked at closely end up either being just repacked second hand Chinese or russian systems, or just outright fake.

Remember their "modern tank" system, which ended up being exposed as a fake, reskinned t-72, and t-50?

That's no different than the Karrar, by the way. It's an upgrade of the T-72 and mostly about image management. Other countries are 50 years ahead of Iran so they add some capabilities to their most modern tank and some design feature to make it look like a T-90 and call it a day. Iran is so full of these fake image-maintenance projects that completely neglect what they really need to do and now can't because of the IR's decisions over the years. They are more about giving the public a sense that they are safe. That worked well for the Sassanids, and Iranians are lulled into complacency as they approach a genocidal ethnic civil war.

 

[DavidKhoresht]

Just another thought. There's no reason for Russia to give Iran those Su-35s. There's no reason for joint military tech development. Iran should have gone the way of the J-10, it would have had indigenous designs that are far ahead of where it is now, and it would have developed an important relationship with China. Russia will probably take two decades to deliver these pieces of shit to Iran and may not even keep their end of the deal given how close they are getting to the West.

 

[That_Guy]

That's no different than the Karrar, by the way. It's an upgrade of the T-72 and mostly about image management. Other countries are 50 years ahead of Iran so they add some capabilities to their most modern tank and some design feature to make it look like a T-90 and call it a day. Iran is so full of these fake image-maintenance projects that completely neglect what they really need to do and now can't because of the IR's decisions over the years. They are more about giving the public a sense that they are safe. That worked well for the Sassanids, and Iranians are lulled into complacency as they approach a genocidal ethnic civil war.

It was found out that the DPRK upgrades on the tank were completely fake, with fake optical sensors, and fake era.

The karrar was an honest attempt to upgrade an aging tank, and it worked to a big degree, because the technology was bought and paid for openly from the Chinese, and no one denies it.

 

[DavidKhoresht]

It was found out that the DPRK upgrades on the tank were completely fake, with fake optical sensors, and fake era.

The karrar was an honest attempt to upgrade an aging tank, and it worked to a big degree, because the technology was bought and paid for openly from the Chinese, and no one denies it.

I really don't think the Karrar will hold up against Kurdish peshmerga armed by the US, Israel and KRG with ATGMs and other force multipliers, especially since in the looming war Iran's aging and scant air force won't be able to provide cover or get an edge over the Kurds. Iran's air force, air defense and radars will be taken out at the very beginning, rendering the country naked to air attacks by Israel, the USAF and Azerbaijan that will affect military and civilian logistics. People don't realize how close Iran is to being absolutely ended as an historical entity.

 

[That_Guy]

I really don't think the Karrar will hold up against Kurdish peshmerga armed by the US, Israel and KRG with ATGMs and other force multipliers, especially since in the looming war Iran's aging and scant air force won't be able to provide cover or get an edge over the Kurds. Iran's air force, air defense and radars will be taken out at the very beginning, rendering the country naked to air attacks by Israel, the USAF and Azerbaijan that will affect military and civilian logistics. People don't realize how close Iran is to being absolutely ended as an historical entity.

I really doubt that. Attacks are easy. Invasion is how nations end, and Iran is way too difficult to invade.

 

[DavidKhoresht]

I really doubt that. Attacks are easy. Invasion is how nations end, and Iran is way too difficult to invade.

Why do you think David's Corridor is being established? It's a direct logistics route to Iranian Kurdistan. The PKK has squashed its beef with Turkey. Ethnic separatism is being stoked on social media. The Israelis are establishing on Iran's border what Iran had (logistics corridor to Hezbollah) on Israel's border.

Iranian Kurdistan, Azerbaijan, and Khuzestan are a lot easier to fight in than the rest of the country. Even a low grade attrition war between Iran and ethnic separatists can be the final straw for Iran.

 

[That_Guy]

Why do you think David's Corridor is being established? It's a direct logistics route to Iranian Kurdistan. The PKK has squashed its beef with Turkey. Ethnic separatism is being stoked on social media. The Israelis are establishing on Iran's border what Iran had (logistics corridor to Hezbollah) on Israel's border.

Iranian Kurdistan, Azerbaijan, and Khuzestan are a lot easier to fight in than the rest of the country. Even a low grade attrition war between Iran and ethnic separatists can be the final straw for Iran.

No such corridor will exist.

The Kurds are Muslim, and a majority have no love for Israel.

 

[DavidKhoresht]

No such corridor will exist.

The Kurds are Muslim, and a majority have no love for Israel.

Israel is the Kurd's biggest ally and their most-invested non-state actors.