J-31 to be inducted soon| Pilot training reportedly in progress

[Musings]

Nothing more re personal attacks. Posts will be deleted. Vital thread to the forum.
Would appreciate no more gigging - thanks in advance.

 

[Deino]

Nothing more re personal attacks. Posts will be deleted. Vital thread to the forum.
Would appreciate no more gigging - thanks in advance.

Agreed and I thought we had an agreement!

 

[r3alist]

You are calling my argument a straw man … well, it was never that way, why should it be now and so IMO you are just looking for any straw, to which one can cling to justify a small justification for "Pakistan will get its J-31 in 2025".

I already said this thread is between aspiration and speculation, that covers me for arrival date

In reality, the real deadline is having operational readiness before India make a step improvement in their capability

This news I can imagine for those who are real enthusiasts for the air force is very very exciting news

Though with the caveat that's already been mentioned about lack of real life exposure of Chinese tech, but this seems too controversial to get into

 

[Michael]

Apart from landing gear what else is the difference between J 31 and J 35?

Here are the data for the F35. You can compare the difference between the F35A and the F35C.
Difference between take-off and landing. In addition to larger wings and stronger landing gear, the entire fuselage of a naval fighter is reinforced due to the need to withstand large impact forces. You can compare the "Weight empty" data.

 

[Zarvan]

Again, this is something no-one denies, but is this THE reason to belive China could not test and verify a fighter on its own or even more needs Pakistan‘s help to do so? NO

So even if this might be seen as a reason, it does not make it more likely that the PLA provides its fighters first to Pakistan to make them combat ready nor does any other PLAAF fighter without Pakistani contribution is less war-ready.

You can do it but a war experience like us tells things which nothing else does plus the extreme temperature difference we have

 

[Deino]

You can do it but a war experience like us tells things which nothing else does plus the extreme temperature difference we have

Again … that all may be a reason, but the PLAAF knows pretty well its job and can develop any type into a capable fighter on its own. As such to think that‘s the reason to think SAC will deliver them to Pakistan first and „the PLAAF is so eager to let us fly and operate them“ is plain ridicolous.

But let‘s wait until November … I‘m sure we will get some news in this regard soon and even more until mid-2025. But similar to the claims „brother, I swear“ a few years ago, Pakistan will get J-16, J-20, Typhoons and additional F-16, I won‘t hold by breath.

 

[Strider]

Hi,

Regardless of the variant---we are getting them---we will be the first ones---.

China is desperately waiting for us to fly them---assess them and share with them info that they cannot get otherwise---.

Haters will hate---but it is not going to stop us.

Some old dude across the border is going to have an auto heart attack. But acceptable.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

You can do it but a war experience like us tells things which nothing else does plus the extreme temperature difference we have

Do we have the experience against USN/USAF/Japan and South Korea?

 

[SteppeWolff]

Do we have the experience against USN/USAF/Japan and South Korea?

We do alot of aerial exercises with NATO states ( Turkey, US, UK etc ). Plus no alternative of actual combat experience against neer peer adversary, most Air forces on planet don't have that.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

We do alot of aerial exercises with NATO states ( Turkey, US, UK etc ). Plus no alternative of actual combat experience against neer peer adversary, most Air forces on planet don't have that.

Thank you buddy

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

We do alot of aerial exercises with NATO states ( Turkey, US, UK etc ). Plus no alternative of actual combat experience against neer peer adversary, most Air forces on planet don't have that.

But do we have aerial excercises with UK and NATO , I don't think so we have any exercises with NATO and UK for years

 

[Michael]

You can do it but a war experience like us tells things which nothing else does plus the extreme temperature difference we have

Pakistan and China are very friendly countries. There is also a lot of tradition of military trade between the two countries. The first customer for many of China's arms exports is Pakistan. That is a fact.

But we cannot assume from these facts that China necessarily needs Pakistan's help in testing its weaponry.

First of all, you need to know. China is the only country in the world that has all-terrain, it has all the natural environments needed for testing weaponry. High cold and heat, high plateau terrain, desert terrain, extreme temperature terrain ............ These are all natural environments. Of course, China also has a very large number of artificial environment testing systems.

Secondly, you need to know. China and Pakistan do not face the same level of military struggle environment. There is a term for this in military fan circles: the ‘East Asian Monster Room’. The military strength of any country or region in East Asia is on the level of hegemony when placed in South Asia. Currently recognised as the worst strength of Taiwan. In the absence of any other country's military support and obstruction, do you think any of the South Asian countries can beat Taiwan?
Seriously, the military struggle between Pakistan and India is completely negligible when placed in East Asia. I know it will break the hearts of our Pakistani brothers, but it's true.
So of course, as a weapons producer, China would need any customer feedback. But it's not necessary.

Rumour has it that China has recruited many retired pilots from Europe and America to teach PLAAF pilots. Let's not judge the truth of the news.
Any country would like to have soldiers from other countries to have friendly exchanges with their own soldiers. This kind of teaching is very beneficial to their own country. No one will reject this mode of teaching.
But it is not necessary. It is a very good thing if this mode of learning can be obtained at a very small cost; but when it is not available, there are other modes of learning as well

 

[mythbuster]

Pakistan and China are very friendly countries. There is also a lot of tradition of military trade between the two countries. The first customer for many of China's arms exports is Pakistan. That is a fact.

But we cannot assume from these facts that China necessarily needs Pakistan's help in testing its weaponry.

First of all, you need to know. China is the only country in the world that has all-terrain, it has all the natural environments needed for testing weaponry. High cold and heat, high plateau terrain, desert terrain, extreme temperature terrain ............ These are all natural environments. Of course, China also has a very large number of artificial environment testing systems.

Secondly, you need to know. China and Pakistan do not face the same level of military struggle environment. There is a term for this in military fan circles: the ‘East Asian Monster Room’. The military strength of any country or region in East Asia is on the level of hegemony when placed in South Asia. Currently recognised as the worst strength of Taiwan. In the absence of any other country's military support and obstruction, do you think any of the South Asian countries can beat Taiwan?
Seriously, the military struggle between Pakistan and India is completely negligible when placed in East Asia. I know it will break the hearts of our Pakistani brothers, but it's true.
So of course, as a weapons producer, China would need any customer feedback. But it's not necessary.

Rumour has it that China has recruited many retired pilots from Europe and America to teach PLAAF pilots. Let's not judge the truth of the news.
Any country would like to have soldiers from other countries to have friendly exchanges with their own soldiers. This kind of teaching is very beneficial to their own country. No one will reject this mode of teaching.
But it is not necessary. It is a very good thing if this mode of learning can be obtained at a very small cost; but when it is not available, there are other modes of learning as well

Other than China and Japan what other East Asian country can beat India and Pakistan ?

 

[Michael]

Other than China and Japan what other East Asian country can beat India and Pakistan ?

Too much controversy can seriously start a war of words. I won't comment on this topic.
If you are in a position to do so, try digital war game and you will get your answer.

 

[Oscar]

Again … that all may be a reason, but the PLAAF knows pretty well its job and can develop any type into a capable fighter on its own. As such to think that‘s the reason to think SAC will deliver them to Pakistan first and „the PLAAF is so eager to let us fly and operate them“ is plain ridicolous.

But let‘s wait until November … I‘m sure we will get some news in this regard soon and even more until mid-2025. But similar to the claims „brother, I swear“ a few years ago, Pakistan will get J-16, J-20, Typhoons and additional F-16, I won‘t hold by breath.

The biggest mistake being made by members here is to assume that what was true 20 years ago is still true now.

I can attest from THE horse’s mouth vis a vis PAF’s relationship with CAC on a very high degree of knowledge input provided on the JF-17 which also was asked along for the J-10B..

But that was early 2000s - we’re nearly 20 years in and the amount of knowledge and progress made exponential over let’s say 2003.

Today the aggregate of what PAF can provide to Chengdu or Shenyang in terms of knowledge/information from exposure is minuscule in terms of its own learnings and that which it has gained through other means.

The PAF is a decent air force - and it does well for it’s role. But it has very little to add now for the challenges that China is facing and will face; neither do the staff requirements of the two forces show any similarities nor their budgets and even allocation priorities.

Anything else is just self aggrandizement.