JF-17 PFX program
- Thread starter Zarvan
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Ali_Baba
VIP Member
Is there a reason why you think that the JF17C is not the same as Gripen-NG? What is the difference in your mind?
Aamir Hussain
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Through soft loans from China, that have to be returned eventually.
Ali_Baba
VIP Member
A fancy way of saying that Block IV will have more local Pakistani content - nothing else... "Fancy name" for a localisation effort at best. The fact that they are still calling it JF17-xxxxx tells you all you need to know.
JamD
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Two points:
1. Kaan for PAF is much more than 6 years away. Recall how PAF inducted block 1, block 2, and then block 3, where block 1 was barely the aircraft that JF17 was supposed to be. The definite JF17 was blk3. Similarly TurAF is going to induct block 10 20 then 30. In most ways block 30 Kaan is the definitive Kaan. And the PAF is very clear that they want to buy the block 30 Kaan. This is in addition the fact that Turkish Aerospace's first priority will be TurAF orders, not PAF. So if Kaan is to join PAF it is atleast a good 10-12 years away.
2. I think PFX is just the name given to the various efforts to nonChineseofy the JF17. I told you about PAF approaching Turkish Aerospace for that. That seems like the most likely scenario to me.
Zarvan
Elite Member
- Thread starter
- #142
Do you know how China works? First go and learn. There are huge chances J 31 prototype 4 and 5th are also flying but aren't shown in public. That also could mean that we may have already become partner in it in the sense that J 31 is being designed keeping our suggestions in mind and PAF pilots could be flying them. The corporation level which we have with China is not like one we have with USA where everything is announced before we get them. All I knowing seeing past record when an PAF announces a plane is coming from China it has never taken more than 1.5 years to that announcement becoming a reality. USA and Europe are a completely different story.
We have also bought systems from Europe as well. I am pretty sure they are not on loans.
Zarvan
Elite Member
- Thread starter
- #143
Only issue we can face with KAAN is engine. Even in that we can have Turkish, British and even Chinese option. As for EW, Avionics, AESA, and other systems Turkey has already done it for F 16 upgrades plus putting them in Khililzelma and Akinci. So by 20th February next year at least 3 KAAN prototypes will be flying and by 2026 around 5. Second prototype already in the works and near completion and soon will take flight. INSHALLAH both J 31 and KAAN will be part of Pakistan Air Force. Don't worry until two months back I also knew of only KAAN coming, although I was told by some it would be J 31 and KAAN I didn't believed it. But when Air Chief himself announced J 31 that changed the game. Just sit back and watch several things will come INSHALLAH
I personally think this is a great idea. You don't need full stealth all the time, and expense and limitations of designs associated with it, a low observable plane that can take first shot is all yoh need most of times
May I ask why you are so sure the J 31 prototype 4 and 5th are also flying but aren't shown in public?
Even more once again just to be clear: Do you want to say we have two J-35 prototypes and no. 03 & 04 are J-31 in your opinion or do you claim, there are two J-35 prototypes and altogether now four J-31 prototypes?
In fact I don't know what's your sources but based on mine - and I have quite a regular access to images of SAC - there are only two J-35 flying and a third one (in green primer) was spotted in August 2023, what fits nicely to the reported maiden flight of the third J-35 prototype in September.
Otherwise NO additional J-35 prototypes and even lesser a J-31 were spotted at SAC!
Therefore again, it would really help a bit to explain on what you base this very bolt statement.
For it to be worth it, it needs to optimize the design for the new more powerful WS-19 engine; 110-120 kn max thrust. Optimize in such a way that the rear of the plane’s design maximizes the use of the thrust and doesn’t hinder air flow, leading to Supercruise capability, or generally maximum effective thrust at what ever thrust level.
Therefore, I think it will be an “evolutionary” design. In the way the Gripen NG is an evolution of the Gripen C, and the Super Hornet is an evolution of the Hornet, a JF-17E/F Super Thunder could be a Lower-RCS version of the JF-17 design with recessed weapons stations not internal bays like the 4.5 gen KF-21. Probably also with the landing gear further out as on the Gripen NG. The only way it could be considered a stop gap is that the Air Force needs ever improving capabilities and the J-31 and KAAN aren’t ready yet, and there is also the need to keep Kamra open, so basically a Block 4 design by another name.
Hopefully a design some what similar to the fan-art designs we saw all those years ago “JF-20”
The key is keep costs down, to around $25 million an air frame, so it fills the bill requirement of many air forces, especially as a loyal wingman in an unmanned version. The Gripen NG is done in by its $85 million price tag.
The PAF needs a plane purpose build around taking on and beating the bulk of the Indian Air Force including the “Super Sukhoi”, and reduced signatures is one way of doing it.
View attachment 22231
You know this JF-20 was a hobby-modeller's what-if project to play around with some ideas? Nothing official nor real.
No, NO and once again NO! These models are made by a local hobby modeller and that story has been told and debunked already so often ...
My friend! Really ... you see stuff that does not exist, over-interpret things that do not exist and spin hypotheses, that are impossible! Come on to think Pakistan could afford the regular J-17C, J-10C from China, J-31, Kaan and not yet another JF-17PFX! Come back to reality my friend!
Since you are telling stories that don't fit, claim things that are not real and fabricate connections to such an absurd level that it almost hurts!
Zarvan
Elite Member
- Thread starter
- #150
Sir both J-31 and JF-17 PFX programs are announced by PAF not me. 200 Pakistanis are working on KAAN it was announced by Turkish officials not me. Plus we would soon be joining KAAN project officially. As for affordability Sir I have answered you thousand time but you live in some dumb bubble and are not ready to come out of it. Please explain how we are buying J-10 C, producing JF-17, Buying Type 54 A, MILGEM, Yarmook Class Corvettes, Missile Boats, 8 Submarines, SAAB AWACS, HQ9, HQ-16, HQ7, CAMM ER, Akinci, TB 2, Wing Long II, SHAHPAR II. VT 4 Tanks, SH 15 artillery Guns and many more weapon systems when you have answer to do that than come and reply me. I have been discussing JF-17 PFX program with some people. The things I showed even if they are fanboy stuff, they could very well become a reality because that is exactly what is JF-17 PFX program. A light fighter jet with a body made with same materials as used in either KAAN or J-31. AESA radar, Avionics, EW suit, IRST and other systems. Just only lacking internal weapons bay and eventually that would come also. And it would be separate from J-31, and KAAN. And next time when you want to question what we can afford, or it not answer how we bought the weapons I mentioned above. J-31 is coming, JF-17 PFX is being worked upon and KAAN will be our future Air Craft also are PAF announcements not me. So please try to send the message to them and ask them how they can afford it all that. And you will get your answer. And even when INSHALLAH al these three Air Crafts will be flying in really good numbers in PAF. Skeptics like you will come up with some other dumb bubble to live in. A person who has chosen to remain blind nothing can be done about that. @MastanKhan
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