JF-17 PFX program

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

Hey, bro. Your point of view doesn't make any logical sense.

Since the PFX uses the B3 body, we don't think there will be any major changes. I can understand that PFX is a localised version of B3, but why with Turkey?B3 itself is a China-Pakistan collaboration, PFX changed to Turkey-Pakistan collaboration without major changes. What is its purpose and significance? Is Turkey much more advanced than China in terms of fighter technology?

PAF already has a large number of Chinese aircraft, your PFX needs to be re-matched with a data communication system to enable two way data communication with other Chinese aircraft.

I have been encouraging PAF to fully localise the JF-17 and establish a Pakistani fighter production chain. China will not retain technology on JF-17. I can't understand why Turkey should be added to this project ................

If it is a new project, it is normal to invite Turkey to join.

I think it's might be like having an optional Turkish weapon system integration option so that it will be a good export options for some countries.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Hey, bro. Your point of view doesn't make any logical sense.

Since the PFX uses the B3 body, we don't think there will be any major changes. I can understand that PFX is a localised version of B3, but why with Turkey?B3 itself is a China-Pakistan collaboration, PFX changed to Turkey-Pakistan collaboration without major changes. What is its purpose and significance? Is Turkey much more advanced than China in terms of fighter technology?

PAF already has a large number of Chinese aircraft, your PFX needs to be re-matched with a data communication system to enable two way data communication with other Chinese aircraft.

I have been encouraging PAF to fully localise the JF-17 and establish a Pakistani fighter production chain. China will not retain technology on JF-17. I can't understand why Turkey should be added to this project ................

If it is a new project, it is normal to invite Turkey to join.

I dont see Turkey as a partner in PFX, that was not my suggestion.

PFX is about taking full control to me.

For example, PAF has integrated a target pod from ASELAN so far, there is potentially Azerbijan with Turkish AAM integration for WVR and BVR and whatever else Azerbijan has asked for. I see PAF wanting to selectively take systems from other sources like Turkey and other countries, and integrate them for it self, and not rely on China for that.

 

[Ali_Baba]

So, Block-4, basically? I theorise there will be an intermediate version between the 5th generation and the JF-17 Block-III. It makes sense, given the significant technological gap between 4th and 5th generation fighters. With scarce resources and a lack of 5th generation technologies, the PAF would likely take a gradual approach toward the next generation by creating an intermediary step (PFX). This would also allow them to gain confidence in localising some of the technologies.

I'm no insider—just making a logical analysis.

By the way, the nose-cone does seem flatter, possibly something similar to this rendering.

View attachment 63624View attachment 63625

You are reading too much into the first picture, and the 2nd is fanboy artwork and can be ignored !!!!

 

[onlinpunit]

Please tell this the typical fan-boys!

What advantage Turkish equipment will bring over the Chinese ones ?
Chinese aviation industry is better than Turkish.

 

[HRK]

As per latest rumors and seems somewhat logical PFX would be

- A newer version of JF-17 in 'Medium to Light' weight 4.5++ generation category

- with single engine but with higher trust then the current RD-93 engine

- it would have bigger dimensions than the current airframe of JF-17

- with higher payload carrying capacity

- with Reduce RCS probably by the use of 'have glass' type of paint.

Keep in mind

- PFX is the evolution of JF-17 program but do not consider it as blk-4 of JF-17.

- It will be a different jet but would be the evolutionary part of JF-17 program. It will also uplift the engineering and manufacturing capabilities of Aviation Industry of Pakistan

- Consider it somewhat similar to the evolution of F/A-18 Hornet into F/A-18 Super Hornet jet which is essentially a different jet than F/A-18 but carry the legacy of F/A-18 family

So, these fresh rumors are not wild like the previous and appears logical and attainable.

 

[Deino]

What advantage Turkish equipment will bring over the Chinese ones ?
Chinese aviation industry is better than Turkish.

Same again, tell this the same and the Turkish fan-boys.

 

[PakShaheen_79]

As per latest rumors and seems somewhat logical PFX would be

- A newer version of JF-17 in 'Medium to Light' weight 4.5++ generation category

- with single engine but with higher trust then the current RD-93 engine

- it would have bigger dimensions than the current airframe of JF-17

- with higher payload carrying capacity

- with Reduce RCS probably by the use of 'have glass' type of paint.

Keep in mind

- PFX is the evolution of JF-17 program but do not consider it as blk-4 of JF-17.

- It will be a different jet but would be the evolutionary part of JF-17 program. It will also uplift the engineering and manufacturing capabilities of Aviation Industry of Pakistan

- Consider it somewhat similar to the evolution of F/A-18 Hornet into F/A-18 Super Hornet jet which is essentially a different jet than F/A-18 but carry the legacy of F/A-18 family

So, these fresh rumors are not wild like the previous and appears logical and attainable.

Well this BOL News report almost confirms this

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[Saifullah]

Same again, tell this the same and the Turkish fan-boys.

Could be JV’s with Turkey or local production of Turkish systems for JF-17. Chinese aviation industry is more advanced than Turkey’s so it doesn’t need to do JV’s with Pakistan and some tech might not be available for local production. Turkey is a natural way for Pakistan to indigenize JF-17 subsystems. China is a superpower whereas Turkey is an upcoming economy that needs other countries to purchase and fund its defence industry and cuz of that is willing to collaborate and give more tech in exchange.
Just like why would China let other countries collaborate on its J-20 or even export its J-20 when it can do everything itself with its own money. But Turkey needs other countries to join the program and buy KAAN in the future so it has enough funds to develop the fighter in the first place.

 

[TAC]

All we know for certain so far is ‘Stepping into the future, PFX , the next generation fighter’ whether they have money or not, whether they have the know how / capability or not, they are clearly aiming for a fighter more advanced ‘next generation’ compared with anything else currently in the PAF. Outline looks like JF-17 so looks like it’s an advancement of that design. That’s about all that is clear at the moment, everything else is guesswork plane and simple. Whether anything comes of it, only time will tell.

 

[Dalit]

I dont see Turkey as a partner in PFX, that was not my suggestion.

PFX is about taking full control to me.

For example, PAF has integrated a target pod from ASELAN so far, there is potentially Azerbijan with Turkish AAM integration for WVR and BVR and whatever else Azerbijan has asked for. I see PAF wanting to selectively take systems from other sources like Turkey and other countries, and integrate them for it self, and not rely on China for that.

Makes sense. Not only airframe changes, but also different weapons systems.

 

[Dalit]

What advantage Turkish equipment will bring over the Chinese ones ?
Chinese aviation industry is better than Turkish.

Probably diversifying. Don't underestimate Turkish sub systems. They are definitely up there with the rest.

 

[Zarvan]

I dont see Turkey as a partner in PFX, that was not my suggestion.

PFX is about taking full control to me.

For example, PAF has integrated a target pod from ASELAN so far, there is potentially Azerbijan with Turkish AAM integration for WVR and BVR and whatever else Azerbijan has asked for. I see PAF wanting to selectively take systems from other sources like Turkey and other countries, and integrate them for it self, and not rely on China for that.

Depends. Turkey along with KAAN needs a single engine stealth fighter jet also. So, if PFX is that thing then they would join but even if it's a Grippen E type thing they still would help in designing it and also, we would get AESA radar, Avionics and other stuff from them.

 

[Michael]

I have some thoughts on the future of the JF-17.

Since the JF-17 is a light fighter, it doesn't make sense to put too much hope in it. After Pakistan fully understands all the design concepts and technologies of the JF-17, Pakistan can set up its own fighter design and development team, as well as Pakistan's own fighter production industrial cluster. And then after that, Pakistan can enlist the help of CAC to redesign a medium or heavy fighter that is entirely Pakistan's own.

With the JF-17 B3 fully localised, Pakistan can put more energy into industrial scale and achieve further reductions in the cost and market price of the B3. Pakistan will get a lot of money from the sale of these B3s. Of course, the JF-17 is a Sino-Pakistani co-operation project, and CAC will also gain some benefits. Pakistan can also buy out these property rights and technology in one go through negotiations with CAC.

My opinion: the JF-17 has a good route to continue after B3.

The JF-17 now has a two-seat version as the JF-17B. we can upgrade the JF-17B to a two-seat stealth version of the JF-17 to be at or near the level of a 5th generation fighter. I'm tentatively calling it the JF-17BX.

The JF-17BX will have two branches:
1. Combat trainer version: this is a fighter similar to the JL-10 (L-15B), but it is a true fifth-generation stealth fighter. No country in the world currently has a similar fighter or research programme. It is a huge temptation for some countries that do not have the capability but would love to have a fifth generation fighter. Some countries that can afford it can also buy it for training pilots (China is also a potentially big customer).
2. Drone-controlled version: you can think of this as a scaled-down version of the two-seat J20 version. It has a UAV commander in the back seat.

The JF-17BX won't be a particularly good fighter due to fuselage size limitations. But it is good enough to meet the needs of certain countries.

Based on Pakistan's current realities, this is the most logical solution. It has very good results, both for PAF's own use and for export to make money. Compared to other fantastic programmes, the JF-17BX programme is much easier to achieve.

 

[GriffinsRule]

My opinion, it's the same airframe but with Chinese engines that offer higher thrust thus higher payload capacity. Russian -Ukraine war has definitely poured cold water on PAF plans to stick with uprated versions of RD-93. Subsystems will be from Block 3 and maybe some Turkish weapons being integrated, which is not that difficult of a bar to achieve.

 

[Dalit]

My opinion, it's the same airframe but with Chinese engines that offer higher thrust thus higher payload capacity. Russian -Ukraine war has definitely poured cold water on PAF plans to stick with uprated versions of RD-93. Subsystems will be from Block 3 and maybe some Turkish weapons being integrated, which is not that difficult of a bar to achieve.

Is it true that our lovely neighbour has gained ToT for the RD-33 from the Russians? Some Hindutvati YT videos are boasting how this would be a nightmare for Pakistan LOL

On March 1, HAL received a contract worth INR 5,249.72 crore from ministry of defence for manufacturing of RD-33 engines. “These aero engines will be produced by the Koraput Division of HAL. These Aero Engines are expected to fulfil the need of Indian Air Force (IAF) to sustain the operational capability of the MiG-29 fleet for the residual service life,” government said in a statement.

Indian Defence Industries | Moving Forward on Indigenisation of RD-33 Engine

indiandefenceindustries.in

I think moving towards a more powerful Chinese engine for the remaining JF-17 is a necessity.