JF-17 PFX program

[Oscar]

Hi,

Look here---the member Deino---who is he to pakistan--- a german jew---acting as if we owe it to him to splurge all our information truthfully to his satisfaction or he will insult and degrade members as he sees fit--- @WebMaster .

What does this forum owe to Deino so one has to be truthful to Deino's satisfaction or to @Awwad satisfaction.

My question is---why would anyone want a proof of a notification or a contract signing of a weapons procurement---.

What satisfaction does Deino or Awwad gets out of it if it is proven---. What ulterior motive do they have to seek this information---?

What does that have to do with it???
You can disagree with the member be done with it -

 

[harpy1]

Pfx

First you’re saying you don’t know the ecosystem and then you’re making authoritative statements on it.

Make up your mind…

How do you know??
Did you work in the ecosystem?

No oscar I don't work in eco system.
But I know what I see and read
See the link attached on first flight of upgraded thunder it's in Chengdu

China touts use of stealth fighter systems on upgraded jet for Pakistan- The Week

The increase on composites improving fbw system are significant structural improvements which pac cannot do
As per agreement with Ali Baba in the earlier post
Its maiden flight was in china not in Pakistan plus it clearly states china have delivered 30 new block threes to Pakistan for x money

I'm not suggesting anything that is made up you just don't have the aero science to go it alone as yet and imo the funds either to set this up

 

[MastanKhan]

What does that have to do with it???
You can disagree with the member be done with it -

Hi,

You need to tell him that---not me---.

 

[Deino]

@Quwa @Deino

So more or less a localized/indigenisised JF-17?

 

[TAC]

Pfx


No oscar I don't work in eco system.
But I know what I see and read
See the link attached on first flight of upgraded thunder it's in Chengdu

China touts use of stealth fighter systems on upgraded jet for Pakistan- The Week

The increase on composites improving fbw system are significant structural improvements which pac cannot do
As per agreement with Ali Baba in the earlier post
Its maiden flight was in china not in Pakistan plus it clearly states china have delivered 30 new block threes to Pakistan for x money

I'm not suggesting anything that is made up you just don't have the aero science to go it alone as yet and imo the funds either to set this up

Why are you so desperate to prove that Pakistan can’t do it alone? I already agreed with that repeatedly but that’s not enough for you is it? What is the important point here 1. That Pakistan will get the PFX online in timely fashion and to specification OR 2. Who they are reliant on to do this. I pick 1 every time. Why are you not able to move on from 2?
‘But… but …but …but Pakistan can’t do it alone’ - don’t be so pathetic!! Go worry instead about what India can’t do alone! The US sent anymore engines for the Tejas yet?

 

[Musings]

Hi,

Look here---the member Deino---who is he to pakistan--- a german jew---acting as if we owe it to him to splurge all our information truthfully to his satisfaction or he will insult and degrade members as he sees fit--- @WebMaster .

What does this forum owe to Deino so one has to be truthful to Deino's satisfaction or to @Awwad satisfaction.

My question is---why would anyone want a proof of a notification or a contract signing of a weapons procurement---.

What satisfaction does Deino or Awwad gets out of it if it is proven---. What ulterior motive do they have to seek this information---?

Look at the title and respect given to you on this forum and stop being disrespectful for people who have been given authority on this forum. If you have an issue - take it up with HQ. No more I ask respectfully.

 

[Deino]

Hi,

Look here---the member Deino---who is he to pakistan--- a german jew---acting as if we owe it to him to splurge all our information truthfully to his satisfaction or he will insult and degrade members as he sees fit--- @WebMaster .

To be honest, I don't know if I've ever met a weaker, more despicable person with such a false character than you!It may be understandable that you deliberately spread false information, but the way you do it is limitless.You know very well that I am a Christian and yet the rumor is being spread that I am a German Jew, which on the one hand wouldn't be wrong, because after all, every German Jew is probably less deceitful than you, but it is wrong and above all only spread to provoke, insult and spread hatred among others who don't understand it.

Like I said so often, some day - especially since I'm a Christian - you too will face the consequences and most likely all you can say when asked why such an a..-...e you can only admit, "since I am one!"

What does this forum owe to Deino so one has to be truthful to Deino's satisfaction or to @Awwad satisfaction.

My question is---why would anyone want a proof of a notification or a contract signing of a weapons procurement---.

What satisfaction does Deino or Awwad gets out of it if it is proven---. What ulterior motive do they have to seek this information---?

This forum does not owe me anything, but being honest and explaining things to others that you understand better than others is a good thing and, in addition to entertainment, is one of the specific purposes of forums.
But since you, as a simply immoral a..-...le, are only interested in putting others down, belittling them, insult others, exaggerating your own worth and simply spreading lies simply because it's fun for you, you probably cannot understand this approach.

Yes, our aim is to find out the truth, be this what's the real purpose and role of the JF-17PFX or the number of ordered J-10CE, but again you probably cannot understand this.

 

[Bossman]

I honestly dont see Pakistan being able to make the same type of structural changes that were made to the Gripen-E on its own - it will need China's help to test and validate the changes. Pakistan has no infrastructure in Pakistan to test the structural validation of a modified design airframe. What Pakistan has to validate manufacturing is different from testing validation.

If you cannot imagine it’s your problem. I remember having an exchange with an Indian on the legacy forum about Pakistan’s ability to launch submarine cruise missiles with nuclear weapons. The Indians laughed but we did it a few months after that. Never underestimate your enemy!

 

[Oscar]

Pfx


No oscar I don't work in eco system.
But I know what I see and read
See the link attached on first flight of upgraded thunder it's in Chengdu

China touts use of stealth fighter systems on upgraded jet for Pakistan- The Week

The increase on composites improving fbw system are significant structural improvements which pac cannot do
As per agreement with Ali Baba in the earlier post
Its maiden flight was in china not in Pakistan plus it clearly states china have delivered 30 new block threes to Pakistan for x money

I'm not suggesting anything that is made up you just don't have the aero science to go it alone as yet and imo the funds either to set this up

Who is Ali Baba within the ecosystem?
He is a member like you, correct?
@Ali_Baba , are you a current or former employee of PAC with daily access between the timeframe of 2011-today?
Are you a subcontractor with access on occasional basis ?
Something that would validate this poster’s using you as an authentic source?

The Block-e was first assembled in Chengdu while both jigs and equipment to manufacture the additional composite components was brought into PAC.

How does that translate to not having the ecosystem to do anything including making any avionics changes as you are claiming?

 

[Zarvan]

Recently someone I know visited NASTP and they got a small briefing re- PFX.
(Azm is dead more or less) PFX is very real and well underway, it is rather PAF's mainstay program right now and for the foreseeable future. PAF claims that no chinese help is being used in it unlike the JF program. Additionally paf claims to have hired a massive new engineer team to do the development locally. Instead of developing a new fighter jet from scratch they will take the matured enough JF BLK3 and make a "New" fighter based on that.

Yes they are making BLOCK 4 like Grippen E.

 

[Zarvan]

So more or less a localized/indigenisised JF-17?

Yes a BLOCK 4 similar to Grippen E with Turkish help and Arab financing. There is no way in hell they are doing it totally on their own.

 

[MastanKhan]

Yes a BLOCK 4 similar to Grippen E with Turkish help and Arab financing. There is no way in hell they are doing it totally on their own.

Hi,

Basically a larger JF17---which I had proposed when the original design had come out or supposedly the original JF17 design that was one size larger than the current aircraft---and not thought to be feasible design at that time.

If that happens then basically a 4.5 gen +++ aircraft with many a sensors mounted on it as close to an F-35.

 

[Fatman17]

Is Pakistan’s ‘PFX’ Fighter Vaporware?​

Pakistan Air Force News Quwa Premium by Bilal Khan 1 day ago

Bilal Khan​

In early 2024, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) revealed a new fighter program called the “JF-17 PFX.” No other details were provided about the program, but a more recent video began referring to it as simply the “PFX” (i.e., without ‘JF-17’ in the name).

It is still unclear what the “PFX” is – or, for that matter, what it stands for (analysts speculate that it could refer to “Pakistan Fighter Experimental”). However, during notable events (such as the 2024 Pakistan Day Parade) and through the local media, the PAF indicated that the PFX would be a 4.5 generation fighter aircraft and a piece of its vision to build a “next generation air force.”

Nonetheless, the details are still scarce and, in turn, the program’s status or overall health is opaque. Moreover, the PAF’s past history with handling platform development through Project AZM and Air Headquarters’ (AHQ) push to import fighters are clear warning signs of PFX being in jeopardy.

Background on Project PFX​

Originally, the PFX program was associated with the JF-17. Hence, one could reasonably assume that the PFX was being driven as a potential upgrade or initiative to localize the fighter.

In of itself, upgrading or localizing the JF-17 would have been a reasonable prospect, though this avenue will also experience challenges stemming from AHQ’s planning (e.g., it is unclear if AHQ is interested in acquiring additional JF-17s, much less continuing its development).

Taint of Project AZM​

Arguably, the reason why skepticism against the PFX is valid stems from how the PAF handled its previous next-generation fighter aircraft (NGFA) initiative, Project AZM.

The PAF failed to properly steward AZM due to several key factors:

First, the PAF lacked any substantive capacity to independently design an NGFA. It did not carry the expertise required across flight control technology, airframe design, materials technology, and many other key areas to manage the program.

Second, AHQ rebuked Turkiye’s invitation to join Turkish Aerospace Industries’ (TAI) TF-X or KAAN program. This resulted in the PAF cutting itself off from a partner who could share the funding burden and to provide technical assistance. With the exception of the United States and China, countries do not pursue NGFA programs alone. Turkiye is the rare exception, but it too would have participated in a consortium had AHQ agreed to join the TF-X in the early stages of the program.

In August 2023, Turkish officials claimed that Pakistan did approach Turkiye about the KAAN; but by January 2024, PAF AHQ openly announced that it would acquire the Chinese J-31. Consequently, the idea that the PAF would develop its own NGFA had ended, until it announced the PFX.

Probable Scenarios​

In contrast to AZM, the PAF seemed to have approached the PFX from a more realistic starting point – i.e., basing it on the JF-17. Though it is unclear if the PFX will materialize, the PAF likely assessed the following avenues for developing the PFX

 

[RAMPAGE]

Recently someone I know visited NASTP and they got a small briefing re- PFX.
(Azm is dead more or less) PFX is very real and well underway, it is rather PAF's mainstay program right now and for the foreseeable future. PAF claims that no chinese help is being used in it unlike the JF program. Additionally paf claims to have hired a massive new engineer team to do the development locally. Instead of developing a new fighter jet from scratch they will take the matured enough JF BLK3 and make a "New" fighter based on that.

I would take it with a pinch of salt. Azm was claimed to have a similarly massive HR behind it. Although this may seem like a smaller undertaking, our HR and industrial base is still too insufficient to pull this off.

PFX is more likely to go the same way as Azm than not.

 

[farooqbhai]

So more or less a localized/indigenisised JF-17?

No, a new fighter based on the JF17. Essentially sort of how Super Sabre led to JF17, PAF is trying to develop something further from the JF17.

I would take it with a pinch of salt. Azm was claimed to have a similarly massive HR behind it. Although this may seem like a smaller undertaking, our HR and industrial base is still too insufficient to pull this off.

PFX is more likely to go the same way as Azm than not.

Dekho bhai meney Jo suna wo bata diya. Mano ya na mano aapki Marzi. Secondly you cannot compare both Azm with PFX. Azm was developing a new twin engine Fighter from scratch, PFX is developing a new single engine fighter based on already existing single engine fighter.