JF-17 PFX program

[Malik]

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[harpy1]

Take a step back guys remove the paitriotic stance

How realistic is it that Pakistan could build a successor to Jf17 with its current tech level resources and aero eco system.

It takes 15 years and 3 billion dollars to develop three or four prototypes

Then the engines radars Ew suites weapons artificial intelligence angle stealth or semi stealth technology

Even the Europeans won't develope their own now .

Just look at the snails pace Tejas has taken and they have been sending satalites into orbit for decades and export software worth 150 billion dollars a year..

But if they pull.of it....wow

 

[amuqeetk]

Take a step back guys remove the paitriotic stance

How realistic is it that Pakistan could build a successor to Jf17 with its current tech level resources and aero eco system.

It takes 15 years and 3 billion dollars to develop three or four prototypes

Then the engines radars Ew suites weapons artificial intelligence angle stealth or semi stealth technology

Even the Europeans won't develope their own now .

Just look at the snails pace Tejas has taken and they have been sending satalites into orbit for decades and export software worth 150 billion dollars a year..

But if they pull.of it....wow

iIt’s clear that you are absolutely correct. However, we can go the system integration route: pay the Chinese to develop a design and then integrate other subsystems from Turkey, China, or Pakistan to create a plane. But if we’re going to go that route, why not try to create indigenous analogues to the current Chinese subsystems used in the JF-17 Thunder?

 

[Bentley777]

Take a step back guys remove the paitriotic stance

How realistic is it that Pakistan could build a successor to Jf17 with its current tech level resources and aero eco system.

It takes 15 years and 3 billion dollars to develop three or four prototypes

Then the engines radars Ew suites weapons artificial intelligence angle stealth or semi stealth technology

Even the Europeans won't develope their own now .

Just look at the snails pace Tejas has taken and they have been sending satalites into orbit for decades and export software worth 150 billion dollars a year..

But if they pull.of it....wow

Ghar chala PAC band karka?

 

[RAJPUT]

Take a step back guys remove the paitriotic stance

How realistic is it that Pakistan could build a successor to Jf17 with its current tech level resources and aero eco system.

It takes 15 years and 3 billion dollars to develop three or four prototypes

Then the engines radars Ew suites weapons artificial intelligence angle stealth or semi stealth technology

Even the Europeans won't develope their own now .

Just look at the snails pace Tejas has taken and they have been sending satalites into orbit for decades and export software worth 150 billion dollars a year..

But if they pull.of it....wow

Bro there is ‘zameen asmaan’ difference between the expenses of a foreign military and ours. A foreign military pays its engineer close to 80-100k USD at average whereas in Pakistan the same engineer would be earning somewhere around 7-15k USD per annum. So the costs to employ people is already down about 8-12 times. We have a industrial giant as a neighbour. We can source raw material from him. So the raw material costs are also much lower than what say US will pay (if not sourced locally). The major costs would be acquiring newer cutting edge tech which we are not focusing on right now. All this tech is about 20-25 years old on an industrial time scale. Nothing about it is cutting edge hence not closely guarded. I suppose this could be much feasible than a lot of people on here anticipate. The only variable and an important one for it would be perseverance that us Pakistani know little of.

 

[TAC]

Take a step back guys remove the paitriotic stance

How realistic is it that Pakistan could build a successor to Jf17 with its current tech level resources and aero eco system.

It takes 15 years and 3 billion dollars to develop three or four prototypes

Then the engines radars Ew suites weapons artificial intelligence angle stealth or semi stealth technology

Even the Europeans won't develope their own now .

Just look at the snails pace Tejas has taken and they have been sending satalites into orbit for decades and export software worth 150 billion dollars a year..

But if they pull.of it....wow

Posts like this are totally based on the wrong assumption that Pakistan plans to develop a successor to the JF-17 without any outside help.

 

[MastanKhan]

Take a step back guys remove the paitriotic stance

How realistic is it that Pakistan could build a successor to Jf17 with its current tech level resources and aero eco system.

It takes 15 years and 3 billion dollars to develop three or four prototypes

Then the engines radars Ew suites weapons artificial intelligence angle stealth or semi stealth technology

Even the Europeans won't develope their own now .

Just look at the snails pace Tejas has taken and they have been sending satalites into orbit for decades and export software worth 150 billion dollars a year..

But if they pull.of it....wow

Hi,

PFX would be an upgradation of the JF17 BLK 3 as dscribed by the air force officer at ideas 2024---.

It will be very similar to the F18 to FA 18 project---from the Gripen C/D to Gripnen NG.

The functional side of the Paf does not believe in re-inventing the wheel---.

Two engines are ready--the RD93 MA and the chinese version as well.

JF17 being a modular design---is already been seen with upgraded engine---so that is least of the concern---.

The product will come out pretty quick.

As for TEJAS---from a military project of building aircraft for the air force---it became a project for creating jobs for the GRANDKIDS---contractors & their grand kids etc etc etc---.

 

[amuqeetk]

It will be very similar to the F18 to FA 18 project---from the Gripen C/D to Gripnen NG.

it will result in redesiging of the airframe and that means issues with flight control computers and God knows what else.

 

[MastanKhan]

it will result in redesiging of the airframe and that means issues with flight control computers and God knows what else.

Hi,

Thanks for the comment---.

I say with certainty---that flight parameters have already been ascertained---.

For the modifications to move ahead---it won't be like starting from scratch---it would be to compliment the existing design---maybe a little larger fuselage---tail I wings---.

80% of the work has already been done---20% won't take that long---.

It is not a contractors project---it is air force's project in itself---so the time factor will be short.

 

[amuqeetk]

Hi,

Thanks for the comment---.

I say with certainty---that flight parameters have already been ascertained---.

For the modifications to move ahead---it won't be like starting from scratch---it would be to compliment the existing design---maybe a little larger fuselage---tail I wings---.

80% of the work has already been done---20% won't take that long---.

It is not a contractors project---it is air force's project in itself---so the time factor will be short.

Like the F2 for the F-16? That also required significant time and resources. I would be extremely pleased if they refrained from altering the airframe and focused on indigenously manufacturing all the subsystems first, as well as assuming the remaining workload from the Chinese, before attempting any changes to the airframe. Don't you agree ?

 

[MastanKhan]

Like the F2 for the F-16? That also required significant time and resources. I would be extremely pleased if they refrained from altering the airframe and focused on indigenously manufacturing all the subsystems first, as well as assuming the remaining workload from the Chinese, before attempting any changes to the airframe. Don't you agree ?

Hi,

The F-2 from the F16's---the japanese had to start from scratch---, They just had the f16 and nothing else top go on---.

Over here---Paf has all the information of the structure---its integrity---its design formats.

That is why the job will be much much easy---.

Also the F-2 had one of the first aesa radars---( correct me on that). The aircraft had a lots of growing pains because the japanese had no real epxerience with an aircraft of that type.

OTOH the Paf and their chinese partners have a lots of experience in fighter aircrfcat manufacture---.

As long as someone does not decide to re-invent the wheel---the transition will be fascinating---.

 

[amuqeetk]

Hi,

The F-2 from the F16's---the japanese had to start from scratch---, They just had the f16 and nothing else top go on---.

Over here---Paf has all the information of the structure---its integrity---its design formats.

That is why the job will be much much easy---.

Also the F-2 had one of the first aesa radars---( correct me on that). The aircraft had a lots of growing pains because the japanese had no real epxerience with an aircraft of that type.

OTOH the Paf and their chinese partners have a lots of experience in fighter aircrfcat manufacture---.

As long as someone does not decide to re-invent the wheel---the transition will be fascinating---.

I sincerely hope you are correct and we do it. i have my doubts about the timeline its too short really way to short.

 

[Michael]

iIt’s clear that you are absolutely correct. However, we can go the system integration route: pay the Chinese to develop a design and then integrate other subsystems from Turkey, China, or Pakistan to create a plane. But if we’re going to go that route, why not try to create indigenous analogues to the current Chinese subsystems used in the JF-17 Thunder?

The question centers on: what type of fighter will the PFX be?

1. Is it a light fighter?
The JF-17 B3 is already the pinnacle of light fighters. There is no other light fighter in the world that can match it. The only way to upgrade it is to evolve it to a 5th generation fighter. However, its airframe limitations are too great, resulting in it not being able to meet the standards of a 5th generation fighter.
In the plans of military technology powerhouses, the future light fighters will be fully shifted to UCAVs. with the application of AI in the field of military science and technology, UCAVs will completely surpass the light fighters.
Well, upgrading the JF-17 to a light 5th generation fighter obviously makes little sense.

2. is it a medium fighter?
This would conflict with the real interests of AVIC, whose main products, the J-10CE and the J-35, are both medium-sized fighters. Why should it go all out to help Pakistan develop a medium fighter to grab its market?
Even after Pakistan goes through some negotiations, eventually AVIC may accede to Pakistan's request. AVIC to execute the entire design, AVIC to directly supply all key components, and AVIC to provide technology transfer for the production of some components. The PAC integrates other technologies and performs the final production. ...... But they will surely attach a particularly important condition ------PFX is for PAF use only and export is prohibited. (Referring to the rest of the world copying the F-16)
This means that PAF will have to fully share all the investment in PFX. With Pakistan's economic strength, it is obvious that the PFX will not be produced in large numbers. After the high investment costs are spread out, the unit price of the PFX will be a figure that far exceeds that of the J-10CE/J-35.
Well, what is its purpose and significance?

 

[harpy1]

Posts like this are totally based on the wrong assumption that Pakistan plans to develop a successor to the JF-17 without any outside help.

You mean Chengdu and china will.develope a new updated version of the jf17 again
You invested money in this I recall project cost was 500 million and Pak contribution was 50% of finance

China has three different projects on the go again huge cost
Two fifth generation and one sixth generation

Do they want the burden of another project ...they will say buy the j35

 

[harpy1]

Hi,

PFX would be an upgradation of the JF17 BLK 3 as dscribed by the air force officer at ideas 2024---.

It will be very similar to the F18 to FA 18 project---from the Gripen C/D to Gripnen NG.

The functional side of the Paf does not believe in re-inventing the wheel---.

Two engines are ready--the RD93 MA and the chinese version as well.

JF17 being a modular design---is already been seen with upgraded engine---so that is least of the concern---.

The product will come out pretty quick.

As for TEJAS---from a military project of building aircraft for the air force---it became a project for creating jobs for the GRANDKIDS---contractors & their grand kids etc etc etc---.

You can't do anything serious that may be deemed a big upgrade on block three ...
Not with out redesign