JF-17 PFX program

[JamD]

and of course the french are willing to sell to anyone

Defence & Space: Toray Carbon Fibers Europe’ Expertise

Torayca® Carbon Fibers have been fulfilling the requirements and challenges of the Defence & Space industry for over 30 years.

toray-cfe.com

And Chinese? Now making T1000 in bulk.

It is not as rosy as a quick google search might suggest. Even the website that you posted has this if you just scroll down:


If you try obtaining high-performance fibres you run into all sorts of roadblocks - many of which are not written in laws anywhere.

Also, you need your fiber supplier to be reliable - their product cannot have variance.

In conclusion, good quality, high performance fiber is a tightly controlled material.

Quick question:

Why didn't Pakistan join TFX project back in the day?

That's a long story but funnily enough, PAC tried doing bits and pieces of work for TFX and one of the stumbling blocks was that the fibers Turkiye could get, Pakistan was restricted from getting. And no Turkiye could not reexport them.

 

[Umar]

Some say Pakistan has 100s of engineers in Turkey, being part of many projects including tfx, regarding tfx what can Pakistan contribute? For Pakistan it's beneficial because Turkey has the best universities, education to gain experience in military technology and for Turkey its good to have engineers from around the world, especially from nations who will become customers in the future. Pakistan is waiting till the engine issue is resolved so will most likely buy it.

I am among the minority who believe we will never see the Turkish jets flying in Pakistani colours.

We were American customers from 1970s to 2000s but now we buy everything from China. There is a likelihood for fifth generation Chinese Aircraft’s in Pakistani flag than having two fifth generation fighters. It will be a good option but will miss out

Pakistan’s future is J-35 and PFX likely replacing the older jets including Jf-17s until 2050.

 

[PakAl]

I am among the minority who believe we will never see the Turkish jets flying in Pakistani colours.

We were American customers from 1970s to 2000s but now we buy everything from China. There is a likelihood for fifth generation Chinese Aircraft’s in Pakistani flag than having two fifth generation fighters. It will be a good option but will miss out

Pakistan’s future is J-35 and PFX likely replacing the older jets including Jf-17s until 2050.

You could be correct aswell. Pakistan may go for Kilzemia drone or Anka 3 and skip Kaan as its heavy weight twin engine jet. J35 is medium weight so it's more suitable for us but it's also possible we may purchase a few squadrons after 2035s. I would like that. 50 Kaans and 150 J35s, backed by 100 AI stealth Kilzemia.

 

[JamD]

Quick question:

Why didn't Pakistan join TFX project back in the day?

1. Initially PAC didn't believe TA could do it. They believed they could do it with Azm. Oh the hubris here. I don't want to go on another rant on this - you can find them all over this forum.
2. Turkiye and Pakistan are in a very different import regime. Turkiye can import lots of things that Pakistan is prohibited to. So any workshare to be sent to Pakistan ran into input problems.
3. Pakistan has little to no industrial capacity to absorb aircraft work besides aluminum structures built from material that must be imported.
4. Pakistani engineers have little to no experience working in diverse aerospace fields on actual aircraft so they couldn't contribute much in brainpower either.
5. Pakistani wind tunnels are handicapped due to import restrictions
6. There is a general security blanket on much of our aerospace sector that actively views any outside viewing as a threat. Many many times Turkish delegates simply wouldn't be allowed to visit sites that they were expected to collaborate with.
7. PAF runs PAC - a fighting force has no business running an R&D organization because people move in and out of PAC like anything. Projects, initiatives are done anew and forgotten every few years. The only constants were maybe really high ups who had vague goals of "collaboration". Consequently, Turkish side was confused and lost every 6 months at the joint working group meeting because 10s of MoUs were signed, many of which were repeated every time and most of which lead to nothing.

 

[Bilal]

Even the website that you posted has this if you just scroll down:

That’s EU. China has developed its own product not a licensed toray.

 

[MastanKhan]

It's a mystery why they would do this, they're clearly under threat and know very well someone out there doesn't want them to have cutting edge technology. Egypt should have bought Jf17 block 3s, bought latest air to air long range missiles, Russians, Chinese or in the future Turkey could have provided them with missiles, avionics, upgrades, Pakistan/China wouldn't have placed too many restrictions.

Hi,

I believe they had made their peace with their neighbor---but the retaliation at Gaza has changed the scenario for Egypt---Turkey---Sudia Arabia---GCC---Pakistan---Iran.

Now everyone is desperately running for the acquisition of 5th gen aircraft---.

 

[JamD]

That’s EU. China has developed its own product not a licensed toray.

Right. Assuming that fiber is reliable and does what it does on the datasheet, there are the other things that I mentioned that prevent aerospace grade CF manufacturing in Pakistan.

 

[MastanKhan]

interesting, didnt know some fibres were ITAR restricted

Hi,

You did not know just the basics---and you been strutting around like a peacock on this forum---.

 

[Ak01]

@Quwa lol, leonardo offered paf britecloud how long ago for jf17? 4/5 years? and yesterday the usaf ordered it for their f-35s

 

[Quwa]

@Quwa lol, leonardo offered paf britecloud how long ago for jf17? 4/5 years? and yesterday the usaf ordered it for their f-35s

There's an analogous Aselsan solution...or the PAF could ask NASTP to make one using Aselsan tech lol

 

[MastanKhan]

Unfortunately, i am not an expert on Itar. I am also not an expert on peddling nonsense, this is your area of expertise. I feel sincerely sorry for your Children/Family

Hi,

Sir---you came out swinging at my posts---I gave you the benefit of doubt---and I thought maybe you knew what you were talking.

But then---as proven always---my first observation is always right---. I say the same thing to my CEO---.

And as for my kids---put them to work at 16---. They know what it takes to make a living---. The USA is a brutal place--and with a muslim last name---you think it would be easy for the kids to succeed---?

They get food---they get shelter---got them a car as well---( Khilao sonay ka niwala---daikho sher ki nazar say )---.

 

[Ak01]

Hi,

Sir---you came out swinging at my posts---I gave you the benefit of doubt---and I thought maybe you knew what you were talking.

But then---as proven always---my first observation is always right---. I say the same thing to my CEO---.

And as for my kids---put them to work at 16---. They know what it takes to make a living---. The USA is a brutal place--and with a muslim last name---you think it would be easy for the kids to succeed---?

They get food---they get shelter---got them a car as well---( Khilao sonay ka niwala---daikho sher ki nazar say )---.

We can tell who knows what theyre talking about lol

 

[HRK]

There's an analogous Aselsan solution...or the PAF could ask NASTP to make one using Aselsan tech lol

If I am not wrong something similar is in working in NRTS

 

[CSAW]

 

[Ak01]

Hi,

Giving credit to yourself is like kissing the mirror and liking your image---.

You are a sifarshi---not a single article of any substance---either good or bad on this forum---.

Your bait wont work, enjoy your warning, one step closer to a ban