JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[safriz]

GIDS website means very little, they never keep it upto date. Same problem as PAC for the specification of the JF17.. still wrong after decades!

Yes sure, but JF 17 exists.
Similarly the FAAZ project exists and not hogwash.

 

[studsmart]

GIDS website means very little, they never keep it upto date. Same problem as PAC for the specification of the JF17.. still wrong after decades!

that is intentional but bad for marketing

 

[hussain0216]

Yes sure, but JF 17 exists.
Similarly the FAAZ project exists and not hogwash.

From memory, and this may be false

But I recall FAAZ project being linked up to Turkeys GoTurk (not correct name) BVR project

At the time, you would assume that both sides would input finance and share tech or support
And was a continuation of the alliance that is building up


So if the above is true, then FAAZ has a good likelihood of being a success

 

[hussain0216]

IDEF 2025 – Gökbora versus Gökhan, the Turkish ramjet powered BVR air-to-air missiles duel
26/07/2025
Paolo Valpolini


The Turkish Presidency of Defence Industries (SSB) signed two research and development contracts, one with Roketsan and Aselsan, one with Tübitak, for the development of two ramjet powered missiles, respectively the Gökbora and the Gökhan, that should give Turkey a Meteor-like capability in air-to-air engagements for the country next generation fighter, and for existing manned and unmanned aircraft
The aim of SSB is to develop two beyond visual range air-to-air missiles (BVRAAM) that, while being both powered by a ramjet, have however a major different in propulsion; the Gökbora is powered by a solid-state motor while the ramjet that powers the Gökhan is liquid fuelled. EDR On-Line understands that once the two missiles will reach prototype stage, comparison trials will be conducted, which will lead to the final selection.


click on image to enlarge
The first to be unveiled on Day 2 at IDEF was the Roketsan missile. The Gökbora is 3.75 metres long, has a diameter of 180 mm and a range in excess of 100 100 NM; by comparison with the Meteor BVRAAM its mass should be approximately 197 kg. Inertial navigation and a datalink between the launch platform and the missile provide mid-course navigation. When close to the target the RF seeker is activated; this will be an active electronically scanned array seeker known as AGRAS 3101/AA, which is being developed by Aselsan and Roketsan under the auspices of SSB. According to information gathered at IDEF the Gökbora ramjet should be based on boron-loaded solid fuel.


click on image to enlarge
While not clearly visible on the model, the missile brochure shows well that rear fins are foldable, which would help in hosting the missile inside a weapons’ bay, eventually increasing the number of missiles, allowing the aircraft to maintain a “clean” configuration; this will be of importance for integrating it in the Kaan 5th generation fighter and in the Kizilelma combat UAV weapon bays. No data on speed and manoeuvrability were provided. According to information gathered at IDEF, the work on the Gökbora missile started in mid-2024, the programme being developed actively, Roketsan aiming to start trials as soon as possible.


click on image to enlarge
The Gökhan remained under veil until Day 4 in the afternoon, when it was finally shown to the public. The programme was started in May 2021 with the signature of a development contract between the Ministry of National Defense and Tübitak SAGE for what was known as the “National Ramjet Powered Air-Air Missile Development Project”, an amendment to this contract being signed at IDEF 2025 for a long-range version of the missile.

No dimensional data nor range figures were provided by Tübitak, the data sheet indicating a speed in excess of Mach 3 and a wide engagement envelope, thanks also to the active thrust setting control. The Gökhan is fitted with a GPS/INS navigation system, an advanced solid-state active radar seeking providing guidance in the last attack phase; this might be a development of the Aselsan Murad family of radars.


click on image to enlarge
A two-way encrypted datalink allows retargeting and handover capability. The warhead is described as an “indigenous design for high lethality requirements,” no more details being provided. The Gökhan will be compatible with the Kaan internal bay and external stations, as well as with the F-16 external stations. Looking at mock-ups and images the Tübitak missile seems to lack the foldable fins of its competitor.

According to information provided by Tübitak, the conceptual design phase and preliminary design phase have been completed, and the ground trials phase is currently underway, flight and firing tests being expected soon.

When SSB will make its selection, Turkey will enter the BVRAAM market, becoming a serious competitor for the European Meteor missile.

Photos by M. Gyürösi and P. Valpolini

IDEF 2025 - Gökbora versus Gökhan, the Turkish ramjet powered BVR air-to-air missiles duel - EDR Magazine

IDEF 2025: The Turkish Presidency of Defence Industries signed 2 air-to-air missile R&D contracts: one for the Gökbora, one for the Gökhan.

www.edrmagazine.eu

 

[hussain0216]

Pakistan and Turkey are collaborating to merge their Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM) programs. This joint venture combines technology from Turkey’s GÖKDOĞAN project (developed by TÜBİTAK SAGE) and Pakistan’s FAAZ-2 project (developed by GIDS).The collaborative efforts and technical specifics for the new air superiority weapons include:The Technology Share: The partnership blends Turkey’s active radar seeker expertise with Pakistan’s ongoing FAAZ-2 development.The GÖKDOĞAN: Turkey's indigenous, medium-range, active radar-guided BVR missile, originally created under the broader GÖKTUĞ project. It is designed to engage multiple targets with high precision.The FAAZ-2: Pakistan's indigenously developed FAAZ series of missiles utilizes RF (Radio Frequency) and IIR (Imaging Infra-Red) terminal guidance. The FAAZ-2 BVRAAM variant boasts a reported maximum range of up to 180 km and speeds exceeding Mach 3.5.Strategic Goal: The merging of these programs is designed to build an independent, domestic supply chain for long-range, Fox-3 class air-to-air missiles, bypassing reliance on Western or foreign suppliers.Would you like to know more about the integrated platforms these missiles will be used on (such as the JF-17 or Turkey's KAAN fighter), or explore other aspects of Pakistani-Turkish defense cooperation

 

[Be dazzled]

Nocturnal Hunter

 

[ThoroughPro]

Any modern aircraft can be attached with IRST using a pod and with required software integration. Block-3 has a dedicated pylon for the pods.

Below image is of old F-15 with IRST pod.

View attachment 203680

you may be right, but that was not the point I was making in my post, read the post i responded to to understand my response.

 

[hasssanali8998]

It does appear as an ongoing project on GIDS website.

View attachment 203797

faaz2 and faaz are different faaz 2 was either supposed to be fully indigenous or plf15 improved copy ,

faaz is local SD10 but with some things different ( ir version iirc )

 

[SABRE]

It does appear as an ongoing project on GIDS website.

View attachment 203797

It is indeed an ongoing project. How far along are they? That's what matters. I am not sure if a complete test system exists at this stage. I would be happy to be proven wrong, though.

 

[MastanKhan]

Usually taught by a good family or eventually Malikul Maut

Hi,

Now you are into family---. Did you cut yourself off from you father in law when you found out he took kickbacks?

And Malikul Maut---everyone has to taste death---and I am ready to meet my maker---so where does Malikulmaut come ito this---.

 

[MastanKhan]

Even if Thunders had an IRST it won't be of any use at stand off ranges

HI,

You are correct---. Irst is possibly good for around 20 miles range at the max---.

Correct me on this---the F22 flew for the longest time without a dedicated irst---.

AI says---"No, the F-22 Raptor does not have a built-in, dedicated Infrared Search and Track (IRST) system. Although originally planned during its design in the 1980s, the IRST requirement was cut to save weight and reduce costs".

 

[White Privilege]

HI,

You are correct---. Irst is possibly good for around 20 miles range at the max---.

Correct me on this---the F22 flew for the longest time without a dedicated irst---.

AI says---"No, the F-22 Raptor does not have a built-in, dedicated Infrared Search and Track (IRST) system. Although originally planned during its design in the 1980s, the IRST requirement was cut to save weight and reduce costs".

IRST made sense when AWACS support was nascent, nowadays nothing hides from networked active and passive sensors so individual aircraft are not flying blind.....