JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[Metal 0-1]

This is like putting TESLA Model X tech into 2010 Corolla. We should tell them to pay some more money and buy the shinny block III of JF-17!

You gonna say the same thing if we were to upgrade our 80s F-16 to Block 70/72 standard.
Or better yet JF-17 Block 1s which are coming close to airframe service life were to equipped with AESA

 

[Yasser76]

US will ensure anyone who is near Israel will never get good combat capability.

Now Pak is in bed with US again, rest assured we will not upset them. Maybe JF-17 is on the cards but with PL-10 missile?

 

[Pak-Warrior]

First thing first J-10C wasn't alone involved in Rafale kill. It was a team effort. You are really undermining the roles of AWACS and other enablers.

J-10C vs Rafale 1V1 with no other enablers involved on both sides. My money's on Rafale.


I wouldn't go this far. But for arguments sake let's talk about it. What block of JF-17 are we talking about?
What variant of Mig-29/35 are we going to pitch against Jeff?

JF-17 Block II for sure skull **** older Mig-29 variants.

But Will struggle against Modernized Mig-29M2 and Mig-35(It's basically overhyped Mig-29).

So you need Block 3. Now it's a level game. Were talking about 1V1 here.

Don't write long texts. Just understand a basic established fact and you will understand whole thing.

Chinese weapon systems & Avionics (sensors/radars) are generations ahead of the Russians now. I have given a link by western authors to support my arguement. it's old article, even more relevant now and this is known fact by now.

Why China’s Latest Jets Are Surpassing Russia’s Top Fighters

Since the consolidation of Communist party rule over mainland China in 1949, China’s military aviation sector has owed a tremendous debt to the Russian Bear. However, according to a new study, the apprentice may have surpassed the master as Chinese jets lead in radar, weapons and stealth technology.

www.forbes.com

So you are smart enough to understand the value of sensors / radars / weapons systems / EW systems in today's modern warfare. So a platform with more modern / capable of those will ALWAYS triumph. JF-17 block 3 uses modern chinese avionics, modern chinese EW and weapon systems. It is at par with western jets. Its crazy to even compare it with mig-29/35 .

 

[Ak01]

US will ensure anyone who is near Israel will never get good combat capability.

Now Pak is in bed with US again, rest assured we will not upset them. Maybe JF-17 is on the cards but with PL-10 missile?

Perhaps. But point is a deal may be on the cards considering this export to Iraq is a pretty substantial one. Many hundreds of millions?

 

[RajaBaja]

Nope. Its for any country, any country which can make an independent decision. Its not as expensive but as capable. (with even better and combat proven weapon systems). Also JF-17 deals costs billions of dollars, No third world country can afford block 3 variants. Don't even compare it with Russian junk of mig-29/35. Russian avionics is generations behind of Chinese. Same for missile systems. Modern missiles have AESA radars of their own like PL-15. The fact JF-17 can carry PL-15s and PL-10 HOBS make it so lethal at first place.

There is no weapon that's for every country. Even the F-16, the largest proliferated weapon system isn't in every air force.

In JF-17 block III, engine power is still an issue. Hopefully it won't be when the engines are all upgraded. Even then, so many air forces won't buy it. We saw in Argentina's case, they'd rather get used F-16's than brad new JF-17 block III's.

Weapon systems are an extension of Geo politics. Try selling just 20 JF-17's to Saudis or UAE. You can't. Why? They'll only buy Western equipment. Similarly, go to Malaysia or Turkey even, no way.

Every product is designed for a market in mind. Ours is, air forces that need capability for a cost effective price and don't want to deal with sanctioned aircrafts (USA / EU), or have supply chain issues (Russia). Hopefully, when we build PFX, that perception can be changed.

 

[Pak-Warrior]

Mig-29M2 reportedly equipped with AESA

Russian avionics is most shittiest of all.

China was once buyer and user of russian aviation, but soon they realized its avionics were way below then western platforms. So they worked vigorously and switched to their own far better ones for decades now. Several articles can be found on subject.

 

[Metal 0-1]

Fellow True American Patriots who are on high horse here need to understand this countries are not buying JF-17 because they can they're buying it because that's their only choice.

How come JF-17 lost to KAI-50 when Malaysia was looking for a light fighter.
Malaysia was our Biradar right. Immi Chan ny Mahatir ke utha ke rakhy thy

 

[Metal 0-1]

Russian avionics is most shittiest of all.

China was once buyer and user of russian aviation, but soon they realized its avionics were way below then western platforms. So they worked vigorously and switched to their own far better ones for decades now. Several articles can be found on subject.

Not even a debate here Chinese domestic Avionics are some of the best. We are talking about exports here.

 

[Yasser76]

Russian avionics is most shittiest of all.

China was once buyer and user of russian aviation, but soon they realized its avionics were way below then western platforms. So they worked vigorously and switched to their own far better ones for decades now. Several articles can be found on subject.

Yeah, the beast that is J-16 should have been made by Russia years ago, but Chinese did it

Now Russian air to air missiles have reputational issues. Chinese ones do not (partly thanks to PAF!)

 

[Metal 0-1]

J-16D my beloved Sino Growler

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Politics has a lot to do with JF-17 sales.. For example the Iraqis really wanted this jet and were ahead of Azerbaijan in showing serious interest but we cannot sell it to them for many reasons

A lot of countries have "interests" in a lot of different types of fighter aircraft.

Just because the JF-17 Thunder has turned out to be fantastic for Pakistan (mainly because it was built for Pakistan), it does not mean it is suitable for everyone else. Rafail has turned out to be a failure for India.

 

[Ak01]

Mig-29M2 reportedly equipped with AESA

easy to prototype.

 

[hyperman]

The reason why I suggest Mig 29 operators is pretty straightforward, the most maintenance intensive bit will be the engine and they’ll have ample spares supplies and mro facilities.

Upgrading airframes, particularly at a time like this where support from the oem/traditional facilities is not guaranteed opens the market up to the JF-17 as the mig 29 upgrade.

The costs won’t be significantly worse, a deep upgrade will of course cost less than a jf-17, but you get a brand new airframe with 3+ years of OEM support. Alongside this, you get access to far better weapons suite etc, effectively it’s a pretty good value proposition for countries. It’s literally the mig 29 upgrade.

I haven't seen a single Mig-29 operator replace the Mig-29 with a lower smaller size fighter. even the ones that have bought JF-17s, they haven't bought them as Mig-29 replacements, but to replace other fighters like the J-7(Myanmar) or as a supplement to their Mig-29s. All the Mig-29 retirements have been over a replacement with western more expensive jets or Sukhois in a heavier class.

For a Mig-29 operator to replace the Mig-29, they are going to have to invest in a new system and when they do that, they usually tech up in capability and payload to a Su-30 if they can't get western planes or in the Eastern European states get F-16s/F-35s or Rafales.

Most of the Mig-29 operators are operators of the J-7 or other older soviet Mig-21s and others anyways. So its not like a customer is being missed that operates Mig-29s but not the other Soviet era planes or older Chinese jets.

 

[hyperman]

Who in the world is fool enough to buy Mig-35 or any Russian jet. Russian electronics, avionics / radars are generations behind Chinese now. Look at the condition of Russia now. Taking ages to build its own fighter aircrafts.

And if you have a lot of money to waste then for sure can go for those ridiculously expensive Western aircrafts. Rafale is considered one of best Western 4.5 gen jet and World already has witnessed the net result against Chinese platform and weapon systems which are shared by JF-17s.

We need to understand one core fact that Chinese had surpassed Russia now for quite a long time.

Why China’s Latest Jets Are Surpassing Russia’s Top Fighters

Since the consolidation of Communist party rule over mainland China in 1949, China’s military aviation sector has owed a tremendous debt to the Russian Bear. However, according to a new study, the apprentice may have surpassed the master as Chinese jets lead in radar, weapons and stealth technology.

www.forbes.com

Totally incorrect. Mig-29 will be shot down by JF-17 in 1 vs 1 every single time. JF-17 employs cuttting edge tech and mig-29s all versions with russian avionics is extremely inferior. Mig-29/35 cannot match chinese platforms EW and avionics. They are inferior a long way. period.

See an article by even western authors and that too 5 years old. You can imagine, how much difference is created by now.

Why China’s Latest Jets Are Surpassing Russia’s Top Fighters

Since the consolidation of Communist party rule over mainland China in 1949, China’s military aviation sector has owed a tremendous debt to the Russian Bear. However, according to a new study, the apprentice may have surpassed the master as Chinese jets lead in radar, weapons and stealth technology.

www.forbes.com

the Chinese have of course overtaken the Russians in Avionics, I am not arguing that. I'm saying the people replacing Mig-29s, its a bit more complicated than Oh the Block 3 JF-17 has AESA so it will be picked over a Mig-29. They have a stockpile of missiles and bombs, compatibility issues, they have issues over training of pilots on a new system, logistics, etc etc. Add to that, they have to adjust to a lower payload jet. Most of the Mig-29 operators who are looking for replacements or upgrades, that are extensive have gone Western or to a Su-30 if they can't get western planes, or they have just done a small update and called it a day, the ones settling for cheaper things, aren't looking for a BVR Apex Air Superiority fighter, they are in the market for air patrols and air to ground capability for their day to day stuff of dealing with air support for ground operations.

 

[hyperman]

LOL! You don't understand basic geopolitics ? How can a country that is ally of US can go freely and buy Chinese gear ???

Idk Ask Pakistan "Mr.Geopolitics Understander". lol

Pakistan recently got F-16 upgrades and it buys Chinese.

The Iraqis have bought Russian defense equipment post Saddam, so not I don't think its oversimplified like that where the all controlling US bans they from buying or whatever myth. The reality is Iraq is divided and run by incompetent people with conflicting agendas. Some are US puppets, some are Iranian puppets. The post Iraq invasion setup is specifically hamstrung by their constitution to be a weak country, divided along sectarian lines, with the KGR, Sunni Arabs and Shia Arabs, with 3 diverging poles.