JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

do you know why PAF sent Mirages?

Because they're the only aircraft in the PAF that carries MITL weapons...

Who was the largest export AMRAAM order in history to be used on? Taliban?

what does MITL weapons means? H4? REK?

 

[Ak01]

The crap is not even worth a read. Just a few rants from a retard.

answer it lol, your claims crumble.

The question is not what comprises that 58% of JF-17 that is made in Pakistan. What is baloney! The question is if Pak could have made that much if it kept having a wesytern dickride? I think I am dealing with a brainless idiot.

Again, another cheap attempt at deflecting lol.

Tell me, of that 58% of the airframe, where does the raw material for it come from? Where do the components come from?

No one is disputing that Pak, like any other country, should diversify its tach base and military imports. But resorting to a sustained campaign against Chinese technology is malicious to say the least.

If this is what you believe i am doing, then this is a flaw in your comprehension skills.

5 months ago, i said Chinese sams are insufficient for our needs, and they need to seek equiptment from elsewhere, HQ-16/9 cannot do the heavy lifting for our threat environment. Similar roaches like you crawled out... "waah waaah, cheen pak dosti, no trust europe, china supreme saar"... and today the PAF is seeking the exact type of western origin SAM's i outlined.

The fact that Pak has benefitted so much by acquiring and then working/improving many crucial systems (and I gave you many examples of such systems) that the west would never had sold, shared or allowed to Pak.

You gave me zero examples lol, because there are none... Infact, you even tried to make stuff up to try and prove your weak point lol

If anything, the west would at best keep Pak as a dependent and an Indian stooge country. Pak would never be able to get any system that would 'disturb the power balance' in the region. That in fact means that Pak gets what Indians would approve/allow to be given to Pakistan. That's what perhaps might be your goal or mission!

lol didn't Michael say above that China wouldnt sell pak anything that disturbs the balance of power in the region? Has China sold Pak anything that was game changing? (no...)/

But yes, that is my mission, as with every moron whos argument crumbles, the answer is always YAHOODI/RAAA AGENT SAAR!

 

[Ak01]

what does MITL weapons means? H4? REK?

Man in the loop- i.e ones which are guided manually by a controller from release to hit.

 

[safriz]

Man in the loop- i.e ones which are guided manually by a controller from release to hit.

Thunder B was built with that in mind. It happens or not is another thing.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

5 months ago, i said Chinese sams are insufficient for our needs, and they need to seek equiptment from elsewhere, HQ-16/9 cannot do the heavy lifting for our threat environment. Similar roaches like you crawled out... "waah waaah, cheen pak dosti, no trust europe, china supreme saar"... and today the PAF is seeking the exact type of western origin SAM's i outlined.

I was listening to Squadron Leader Ali Hamza's live session on YouTube today. I asked him a question in the comments about high value PAF asset defence, and he said we are looking for some Chinese SHORADs [Short-Range Air Defense Systems]. I asked him further, saying we need something like a CIWS [Close-In Weapon System] like IRIS-T SLM, and to my knowledge, there is no such Chinese system? By the way, which SAMs [Surface-to-Air Missiles] from the West are you talking about? IRIS-T SLM or CAMM-ER? Or both?

But yes, that is my mission, as with every moron whos argument crumbles, the answer is always YAHOODI/RAAA AGENT SAAR!

@gamaji @arslank01 friends, these agent-traitor Western-minded, China-minded [people]... why do Pakistanis immediately resort to accusations? Can't we express our points of view in a civilized manner? And if, let's suppose, I can't convince someone with my argument, at least we shouldn't resort to slander, accusations, or abuse. Just say, 'I am not convinced, let's agree to disagree peacefully and respectfully.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

Man in the loop- i.e ones which are guided manually by a controller from release to hit.

esa kyun? kya guidance system missiles kay theek nahi thay? legacy one? koyi aik esay weapon ka naam hi bata do?

 

[puttputt]

I was listening to Squadron Leader Ali Hamza's live session on YouTube today. I asked him a question in the comments about high value PAF asset defence, and he said we are looking for some Chinese SHORADs [Short-Range Air Defense Systems]. I asked him further, saying we need something like a CIWS [Close-In Weapon System] like IRIS-T SLM, and to my knowledge, there is no such Chinese system? By the way, which SAMs [Surface-to-Air Missiles] from the West are you talking about? IRIS-T SLM or CAMM-ER? Or both?

@gamaji @arslank01 friends, these agent-traitor Western-minded, China-minded [people]... why do Pakistanis immediately resort to accusations? Can't we express our points of view in a civilized manner? And if, let's suppose, I can't convince someone with my argument, at least we shouldn't resort to slander, accusations, or abuse. Just say, 'I am not convinced, let's agree to disagree peacefully.

PAF is looking at a mix of Chinese and Western solutions for SHORAD. Each one can solve a specific piece of the puzzle. China will probably brought into helping complete FAAZ-SL and LoMADS, while a Western SAM will be sought for point-def coverage in tandem with the short-and-medium-range FAAZ-SL and LoMADS. So, basically, LoMADS for 100 km, FAAZ SL for 20-25 km, and a Western SAM like IRIS-T SL for 10-15 km. I mean, IRIS-T SL and CAMM-ER are the big brands, don't discount smaller players too, like Turkey's HISAR or even, by some miracle, we grab whatever's left of the Umkhonto.

What would be interesting to watch tho is how much of a relationship LoMADS has with the DK-10 because, interestingly, the latter can be worked into a VLS. So, one could look at potentially updating the Type 054A/Ps with the LoMADS.

 

[Ak01]

Some of the issues with west. you can correct me if i am wrong in any of below points.

Germany blocked MTU engines for Hangor-class in 2020-22 due to export controls later Pak requested China-specific variants (e.g., Hangor subs with AIP tweaks).

This was not because of Pakistan, but rather, an issue with China. Germans are probably one of the most pro pakistan govt's in Europe. It baffles me too, but Bilal literally has an example where Diehl's rep told him, dont worry about export clearences for RAM, we will ensure you get them.

Not to mention the fact that all of PN's SWAT/NG attack sub options feature siemens fuel cells if im not mistaken- Germany also provided the entire sensor stack for our agosta MLU, and sold a SHIT TON of TRML's to Pak (via MPDR upgrade package)! Heck, it would be surprising if our national radars were not derived from German ones.

Yes Pakistan got Mirage III/5 blueprints for ROSE upgrades) and Agosta: Full ToT (3 built in Pakistan) but they were legacy system. Also, UK offered old/retired Tranche 1 Typhoons (free/cheap) in 2010s;

No no, France wanted to transfer the ENTIRE Mirage F1 production setup to Pakistan, im not even talking about mirage 3/5. Agostas are hardly legacy in terms of submarine life cycles, 25 years old gives it atleast another nearly 2 decades in service. Also, not to mention the literal custom scorpene variant.

Typhoons were not offered in 2010, rather, during Aman's tenure, so within the last decade, during the whole FATF drama as that killed the deal due to financing (?)- deal included new airframes+tranche 1s for free as far as i know

but can they gave us fifth gen?

Pakistan actually shot itself in the foot here. We have SERIOUS issues with safeguarding tech, we have probably some of the poorest operational secrecy in the world, like hell, i bet you every aspect of our military is compromised by Indians, Israelis, Americans etc. I mean hell, its so easy, they literally leaked the entire J-10 contract, they literally leaked every single contract and document of seriously secret projects that were running in the country. I mean bruh, i literally had the addresses of the PARENTS of some MBDA contractors as part of their NOC's. I had their passports, hotels they were at, the projects they worked on, etc etc.

Infact, there was a recent databreach at PAC, i dont have tons of information on it, but it was a pretty significant one, where some French guy had access to a ton of information- i dont know what or why the motivation was behind it, but fucking hell, it was pathetic. Also, not to mention the fact that with a little buttering up, Pakistanis tend to chirp, we love having our egos stroked, we're like the easiest people on earth to get information out of lol.

So no, i dont think the US would sell F-35's to us, in the same way i think the ONLY way China would sell J-35's to Pakistan is with SERIOUS safeguards in place and US style TT's.

any weapon on par with israel?

I dont know why Israel is on our minds 24/7- your immediate threats are Afghanistan, India and Iran, the only reaosn Pak and Israel are skittish is because retards in the GoP every other month make a nuke threat to them...

why germany blocked typhoon for turkey?

The German Turk relationship is far, far more complex than "Protecting Israel" bro.

the west will never compromise on israel and muslims countries will always lack behind a generation from israel in defence? but in china case? we can get the J-35AE?

well, if thats the case why is Europe inviting KSA into GCAP?

baaki muft main duniya mai koyi b kisi ko koyi chez nahi deta.. turkey and even saudia b humain free main kuch nahi deingay tau china kyun de?

Bingo- we're customers, they're suppliers, so we should get off our knees and stop worshipping them. Its a normal relationship and we should look for the best interests of Pakistan...

China has significance advancements in defence production both quantity and quality wise. why not get armed to the teeth from china so that we can save our ass from western chaudhry in middle east israel and their previou dog india.

So what has stopped us from getting armed to the teeth? So far our most groundbreaking deal has been 20 J-10s. Anyway, Pak and Israel will never go face to face, it is purely a wet dream, literally.

Bhai latest misaal greek aur turkey ki b dekh lo aap.. greek musalsal apni airforce and military might enahce kar raha quality wise. west muslim countries ka kabhi sagga ho hi nahi sakta.. the only exception i have observed is Italy..wo humain dil khol kay madad kar raha..

Italy, Germany, two powerhouses in Europe, the other two, France and the UK are woo'ing India. Germans OTOH are shaky on getting too close to India, seems pretty balanced.

 

[Ak01]

esa kyun? kya guidance system missiles kay theek nahi thay? legacy one? koyi aik esay weapon ka naam hi bata do?

it works better in this case because they wanted to fire a warning shot, showing a recording that they COULD hit if they wanted to, but steered the weapon into an open field as a show of force.

H2/H4 are the only MITL wpns the PAF operates.

 

[Ak01]

I was listening to Squadron Leader Ali Hamza's live session on YouTube today. I asked him a question in the comments about high value PAF asset defence, and he said we are looking for some Chinese SHORADs [Short-Range Air Defense Systems]. I asked him further, saying we need something like a CIWS [Close-In Weapon System] like IRIS-T SLM, and to my knowledge, there is no such Chinese system? By the way, which SAMs [Surface-to-Air Missiles] from the West are you talking about? IRIS-T SLM or CAMM-ER? Or both?

my prediction is the PAF will select CAMM-ER, the navy was very satisfied at its performance with simulated brahmos intercepts.

It could actually go either way. PAF can integrate CAMM-ER into spada, and i know for a fact, they wanted to replace the ASPIDE missiles with something else, (skydragon 50 was the initial, very retardedly ambitious plan), hence CAMM-ER could fit quite well.

On the other hand, IRIS-T SLM could fit in well with the Current TRML based radars we have in large quantities, so literally, could go either way, both are a great option.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

Bingo- we're customers, they're suppliers, so we should get off our knees and stop worshipping them. Its a normal relationship and we should look for the best interests of Pakistan...

I agree with this fully

So what has stopped us from getting armed to the teeth? So far our most groundbreaking deal has been 20 J-10s. Anyway, Pak and Israel will never go face to face, it is purely a wet dream, literally.

paisa? hum ghareeb bhtt hain

 

[Pak-Warrior]

Heck, Chinese helped Pak even with nuke tech and material (as Dr. AQ Khan has said in multiple interviews) and missile factories (at Fateh Jhang)

Total LIE! Dr.A.Q.khan never said that for nuclear tech. Its a huge disservice you are doing to Pakistani scientists who in 70s to 90s worked with a sole mission to make Pakistan nuclear power. Nuclear field is such field that no country, even your best friend won't like to see another nuclear power in the world. Pakistan became nuclear power ONLY because of its own human resource. Dr.A.Qkhan was great at procuring stuff and sending his team members for knowledge seeking to various parts of world . Often those missions were in Western countries (and were very risky). Why would they do it if they had China available to help in everything ??

People often confuse nuclear commercial power plants and mix them with nuclear weapon tech. Chinese contribution is STRICTLY LIMITED to nuclear commercial power plants setups. and Yes China / Korea helped in missile stuff. Ghauris were initially Koreas help, Shaheen's earliest version had chinese help. Ghauris wasn't completely Nodong as people allege. The whole control system was written at KRL, and various others bits but it was a starting point.

In the end, make sure never to spread this propaganda that china helped Pak become nuke power. Its massive disservice to all the scientists who literally dedicated their lives and sacrificed a lot for this endaveour. China did helped in missile tech and nuclear commercial power plants which are monitored by IAEA too for safety regulations.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

my prediction is the PAF will select CAMM-ER, the navy was very satisfied at its performance with simulated brahmos intercepts.

It could actually go either way. PAF can integrate CAMM-ER into spada, and i know for a fact, they wanted to replace the ASPIDE missiles with something else, (skydragon 50 was the initial, very retardedly ambitious plan), hence CAMM-ER could fit quite well.

On the other hand, IRIS-T SLM could fit in well with the Current TRML based radars we have in large quantities, so literally, could go either way, both are a great option.

Thank you for the information. I have not seen any news regarding our western exploration for shorad, but if you are saying then maybe its happening and the PAF may be evaluating these options, which would be beneficial for Pakistan’s defense capabilities.

Additionally, I have a question: Would the PL-10 missile be more effective for point defense compared to the SD-10 or PL-15? I believe the PL-10’s seeker is better suited for close-in weapon defense.

 

[Ak01]

Thank you for the information. I have not seen any news regarding our western exploration for shorad, but if you are saying then maybe its happening and the PAF may be evaluating these options, which would be beneficial for Pakistan’s defense capabilities.

i think it should be on this weeks Quwa podcast

Additionally, I have a question: Would the PL-10 missile be more effective for point defense compared to the SD-10 or PL-15? I believe the PL-10’s seeker is better suited for close-in weapon defense.

Im not too sure, id say each has its merits, it really depends on the mission but im guessing they ditched the IR seeker on CAMM because ARH was better suited to the varied mission set. Perhaps allows the missile to search for its target further away.

PL-10 would make a great vshorads though, its effectively what the paf is looking for but in a more lethal, longer ranged package

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

i think it should be on this weeks Quwa podcast


Im not too sure, id say each has its merits, it really depends on the mission but im guessing they ditched the IR seeker on CAMM because ARH was better suited to the varied mission set. Perhaps allows the missile to search for its target further away.

PL-10 would make a great vshorads though, its effectively what the paf is looking for but in a more lethal, longer ranged package

yes range is the issue only if we can get a little longer range for PL-10 kind of intercpetor. i think its interception rate would be higher due to its high maneuverability.