JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

Hate to be the fly in the ointment on this, but the original business case for the FC-1 was for both China and Pakistan to purchase large numbers of the platform(almost equal if i recall correctly).

China then pulled out of that commitment due to its own requirement changes and J10CE, but it did mean that the initial business case and economics of the JF17 was unfavorably disturbed towards Pakistan, as Pakistan had to then fully fund the development of the platform, rather than sharing the cost with the PLAAF which was the initial plan. I recall this from "way back then" ... That meant, Pakistan could not purchase as many units as it wanted as it had to spend so much on the development effort itself and why the platform took so much longer to mature as it became dependent on PAF funding.

This is why I personally believe that the PAF "sat out" the initial sales pitches for the FC-31 to "co-develop it" until China fully committed to it, fully funded the development and got the plane ready for export sales, which it has done so. PAF did not want to get caught out on that again.

Agree on everything you say, but the development of the FC1/JF17 was not all smooth politically.

( the internet forgets these things, so I can't pull some of the original references on this anymore unfortunately ... )
That was way earlier in 80s, called Super-7 project with Americans involved. Went cold when Pakistan had access to F16.

By the late 90s project reboot, China had no interest in a light fighter, no urgency to localize/develop a middle-thrust engine.
 
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Yeah sure, but the 5000 pounds extra thrust was a major error by Alan.
 
... Is it 70% Pakistani or 58% or even 20% Pakistani?
I cannot give you the exact figure - you could say its barely 10% based on the way everything was manufactured from raw materials to components which would be assembled in Pakistan - but then the design of many aspects were from Pakistan. ...
So, are the iPhones not American? 🤔Because I heard raw material and parts come from around 110 countries.
 
Sweden: won’t sell any “offensive” system. Everything available for indian.

Korea: won’t sell us anything anymore in effort to gain indian orders.

France: same. Plus blocked Subs/ mirages under upgrade during escalations.

US: on and off sanctions.

The truth is somewhere in between. None of them would provide emergency supplies of systems like we got post 2019.

Italy and Spain have been reliable though. Specially, Italy.

-میں تہ بس ایف-16 لیساں


These are diehard pro-Americans. You can't change them even if 80% of weaponry came from China. They can't forget Pakistan's golden age of the 1950s and 1960s.
 
So, are the iPhones not American? 🤔Because I heard raw material and parts come from around 110 countries.
from what perspective ?
If the design of the overall architecture and software is majorly American then it is designed in America (Iphone’s actually do say designed in California and manufactured in China)
But from a who built it - its Chinese
 
That was way earlier in 80s, called Super-7 project with Americans involved. Went cold when Pakistan had access to F16.

By the late 90s project reboot, China had no interest in a light fighter, no urgency to localize/develop a middle-thrust engine.
Not quite accurate. Super 7 stopped because US pulled out after Tianaman and at the time China wasn’t capable enough to fulfill Pakistans requirements without the US.
 
What is the update on the sale of JF-17s to Azerbaijan? Some of the units should have been built by now.
 
What is the update on the sale of JF-17s to Azerbaijan? Some of the units should have been built by now.
Yes exactly. People show us 2023 updated units. It is hard to believe that Pakistan did not update or upgrade there units for JF 17 till 2025 as i think we got all J 10C jets till end of 2023. Therefore, it is a 2 year gab and we would never waste 2 year idle. Moreover, 2022 and 2023 was the worst finicial year for Pak. Therefore finances would never been an issue.
 
in '71 kissinger literally sent supplies via Iran/Jordan

Why was China our only option?

If the JF-17 didnt happen, its not like there werent other options lol.

Heck, Atlas Cheetah joint dev would have setup a genuine industry in Pakistan. Infact, transferring the entire Mirage 3/5 production setup into Pak so we could develop our own Cheetah/Kfir/3NG would have once again, spun up a proper Pak industry, these are airframes were intimately familiar with, moreso than JF-17 because we're not held back by said partner.

Did you also conveniently forget the whole Mirage F1 offer?

And yes, I owe Tufail saab a flight when he pops over to the UK! though its been a couple of years, so god knows if he still remembers, but i certainly do lol!
What are your thoughts about Navy's Milgem/Jinnah Project?
Is it just another JF17-2 type project or genuinely some serious effort to build naval industry in Pakistan?
Basically I'm asking from Turkish vs Chinese OEM behavior in ToT for PN.
 
What are your thoughts about Navy's Milgem/Jinnah Project?
Is it just another JF17-2 type project or genuinely some serious effort to build naval industry in Pakistan?
Basically I'm asking from Turkish vs Chinese OEM behavior in ToT for PN.
i think its an attempt, but really, it will end up as fluff imo

ill reply in a more detailed way in a few days, this week ive been flying nearly every bloody day so no time!
 

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