Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KP) Terrorism Watch

[El Sidd]

I still meet some oldies and they say if Zia didn't die, Pakistan would have liberated Kashmir and destroyed India, they still consider him a powerful visionary leader. The reason Zia pumped jihadi ideology is not because he was radicalised but he was given ideas by Saudi Arabia to use religious ideology against Secular ideology, since Bangladesh was separated by secular ethnic ideology. Zia thought he can make Pakistan in to a powerful united Islamic state, with close alliance with Afghanistan, both will share religious nationalism and the threat of ethnic separatism will finish but he failed to realise this same foreign religous ideology is not from this region, this ideology follow foreign ideologies, foreign mullahs, literature and the control will be in the hand of foreign people who will take advantage. This is exactly what happened, these extremist mullahs want a Syrian style revolution, they want Arabic promoted as language, arab nationalism promoted, arab dress, culture, they hate local customs and culture.

Look at Afghanistan Taliban, since coming back to power they declared themselves to be independent Islamic power, since then Saudia hates them, banned Taligh Jamaat in Saudi Arabia, issued fatwas, you see they spent billions in Afghanistan but cannot control the Taliban. This is why someone out their is pumping billions in to ISIS to target Taliban, and trying to cause a civil war in Afghanistan to bring Taliban on their knees.

You really don't wanna find out what Taliban would do to Whirling Dirveshi Paradise you have envisioned.

 

[Distant_Observer]

lol one jdam to iea hq qould lead to huge problems for pak. hope those who championed american withdrawl are happy.

Ideally Pakistan should have closed their border and joined NATO with ground troops and properly taken care of the border areas. That's what Musharraf wanted but the people were not with him, they were caught in a daze by Taliban/AQ psyops which they were running since 1992.

 

[PakAl]

@arslank01

Arslan sb,

i really wish the state had imposed a state sanctioned form of islam, closing down all independant madrassas and having only state owned and managed ones.

That is a good idea. Only thing is you will have to select one particular line. Going by sheer military prowess and ideological coherence, the Deobandi-Wahabi line maybe the only one suitable for selection as national Islam.

Regards

The sunnis and shias of Pakistan will reject this, this is another reason we have issues, people in the higher circles like what you just said, its a modern version, very political, willing to collaborate, even fight wars for funding whilst others have been here for centuries and do not want to kill, they want to live in peace, even with India they don't want a war but live peacefully as we all have been doing for centuries. Ofcourse defending oneself and defence is something else.

My example is the list below. 95% are militants with similar ideologies, fighting wars all over the Muslim world against Muslims lol whilst claim to be the savior of Islam, those who fund and train them are the same, it's definitely not Syria Iran or Sudan lol.

List of designated terrorist groups - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Indos]

Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, Central Asian stan nations all enforce this. They don't get hit by religious fanatics.
But it needs scholars who are respected, not the clown circus set-up now in charge.

Nope. The best school in Indonesia is state owned Madrasah. One of the student get Gold in international AI competition

We have huge Madrasah control by non state organization, Nahdatul Ulama

 

[Waz]

Nope. The best school in Indonesia is state owned Madrasah. One of the student get Gold in international AI competition

We have huge Madrasah control by non state organization, Nahdatul Ulama

Which is in line with government guidelines, is patriotic, and speaks against terrorism right?
That's what I am getting at.

 

[Indos]

I have made the threat over it. Islam is interpreted by the followers. The interpretation can be right, can be wrong

 

[Indos]

Which is in line with government guidelines, is patriotic, and speaks against terrorism right?
That's what I am getting at.

I dont think Islam in Indonesia is set by gov. Islam in Indonesia is lead by two largest Islamic organization, Nahdatul Ulama and Muhammadiyah. Muhammadiyah since Soeharto regime until now control Education Minister and NU control Minister of Religion

 

[PakAl]

You really don't wanna find out what Taliban would do to Whirling Dirveshi Paradise you have envisioned.

I understand but they declared Afghanistan to be Hanafi state, with giving rights to Shia minorities. You must also know majority of Afghanistan is Sunni Hanafi Sufi, and not what your thinking it to be. Ofcourse they're not like Turkish sufis or Pakistan sufis also known as brelvis, the afghan ones are religious and armed.

 

[El Sidd]

I understand but they declared Afghanistan to be Hanafi state, with giving rights to Shia minorities. You must also know majority of Afghanistan is Sunni Hanafi Sufi, and not what your thinking it to be. Ofcourse they're not like Turkish sufis or Pakistan sufis also known as brelvis, the afghan ones are religious and armed.

Afghans have their own Sufis. They just happen to bear arms.

 

[PakAl]

Nope. The best school in Indonesia is state owned Madrasah. One of the student get Gold in international AI competition

We have huge Madrasah control by non state organization, Nahdatul Ulama

I love Nahsatul Ulema, they follow historical traditional Indonesian sunni Islam, rather than some modern western version. I met many Indonesians in Makka, very polite, well mannered people, can easily tell they know about Islam and also the world.

 

[Indos]

I love Nahsatul Ulema, they follow historical traditional Indonesian sunni Islam, rather than some modern western version. I met many Indonesians in Makka, very polite, well mannered people, can easily tell they know about Islam and also the world.

Nahdatul Ulama is more in traditional Islam with Sufism heavy while Muhammadiyah is modernist with more on modern science. We can see Nahdatul Ulama has huge Madrasah and under Minister of Religion it control since Soeharto era, they also the one who manage state owned Madrasah.

While Muhammadiyah has many universities (more on modern science and very few on Islamic teaching). Muhammadiyah is closer to Wahabism.

Actually there are many Islamic organization here. And there is also MUI like Islamic Council who comes from all Islamic organization background whether Muhammadiyah or NU, or other Islamic Organization.

Personally, I am like combination of Muhammadiyah and NU as I really learn and believe in Sufism.

Muhammadiyah - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

-----------------

Muhammadiyah (Arabic: محمدية, Muḥammadiyyah, lit. “followers of Muhammad”), officially known as the Muhammadiyah Society (Indonesian: Persyarikatan Muhammadiyah), is one of the largest Islamic non-governmental organizations in Indonesia.


Founded in 1912 by Ahmad Dahlan in Yogyakarta, Muhammadiyah began as a reformist socio-religious movement advocating ijtihad—the individual interpretation of the Qur'an and Sunnah—over taqlid, or adherence to traditional interpretations of the ulama.


From its inception, Muhammadiyah has promoted a reformist platform that blends religious and secular education. This approach aimed to:

• Advance the upward mobility of Indonesian Muslims toward a “modern” society.
• Purify Islamic practice in Indonesia from local syncretic traditions.

While firmly grounded in Islamic values, Muhammadiyah supports local culture and promotes religious tolerance. In some regions—particularly East Nusa Tenggara and Papua—a number of its higher education institutions are attended predominantly by non-Muslims.


Beyond education, Muhammadiyah operates a wide network of charity hospitals and, by the late 1990s, managed 128 universities across Indonesia.

-----------

Example of Muhammadiyah University

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[PakAl]

Nahdatul Ulama is more in traditional Islam with Sufism heavy while Muhammadiyah is modernist with more on modern science. We can see Nahdatul Ulama has huge Madrasah and under Minister of Religion it control since Soeharto era, they also the one who manage state owned Madrasah.

While Muhammadiyah has many universities (more on modern science and very few on Islamic teaching). Muhammadiyah is closer to Wahabism.

Actually there are many Islamic organization here. And there is also MUI like Islamic Council who comes from all Islamic organization background whether Muhammadiyah or NU, or other Islamic Organization.

Personally, I am like combination of Muhammadiyah and NU as I really learn and believe in Sufism.

Muhammadiyah - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

-----------------

Muhammadiyah (Arabic: محمدية, Muḥammadiyyah, lit. “followers of Muhammad”), officially known as the Muhammadiyah Society (Indonesian: Persyarikatan Muhammadiyah), is one of the largest Islamic non-governmental organizations in Indonesia.


Founded in 1912 by Ahmad Dahlan in Yogyakarta, Muhammadiyah began as a reformist socio-religious movement advocating ijtihad—the individual interpretation of the Qur'an and Sunnah—over taqlid, or adherence to traditional interpretations of the ulama.


From its inception, Muhammadiyah has promoted a reformist platform that blends religious and secular education. This approach aimed to:

• Advance the upward mobility of Indonesian Muslims toward a “modern” society.
• Purify Islamic practice in Indonesia from local syncretic traditions.

While firmly grounded in Islamic values, Muhammadiyah supports local culture and promotes religious tolerance. In some regions—particularly East Nusa Tenggara and Papua—a number of its higher education institutions are attended predominantly by non-Muslims.


Beyond education, Muhammadiyah operates a wide network of charity hospitals and, by the late 1990s, managed 128 universities across Indonesia.

-----------

Example of Muhammadiyah University

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

You see Pakistan and Indonesia have big differences, Your maddrassa is like a proper university, maybe better than Pakistani universities. Whilst Pakistan maddrassa is not really a maddrassa, it's just a building where they teach Quran or memorisation of Quran, meanwhile the headquarters of maddrassas are abit more advance, they teach 6 to 8 years of islamic ulema course/mufti courses.

The problem with this is these people then have no other skills, so they become Imams, muftis or run their own maddrassas, they have been in isolated building all their lives, and now find it difficult to live in the real world. Realistically they should learn from maddrassas and then move on to colleges and universities, get degrees, professions and then teach islam aswell as work in other fields.

In Pakistan the TTP, and other extremist organisations are like Indonesia Jamme Islami movement, the closest to Muhammadiyah or Nahdatul is Minhaj ul Quran, they have Islamic sharia colleges, University, 1000 Madrasah which teach science English technology, Islamic studes etc with Quran Hifz, they actually try to learn from Indonesia Egypt Malaysia and Turkey.

I personally like Nahdatul Ulema, traditional Sunni Islam than any modern version. I liked the way you explained the difference between Muhammadiyah and Nahdatul Ulema, In Pakistan we have the same issues, alot of the extremists reject taqleed and follow their own interpretions, so according to their understanding of islam, Pakistanis are kafir and mushriks and must be converted, they reject the old historical Islam in Pakistan, meanwhile the majority of Pakistanis follow traditional Islam, another issue is since we have less literacy rate, alot of people do wrong things in the name of sufism and jihadis use this against them, among many other dodgy stuff. So our problem is not just one.

Have you ever read about how islam arrived in Indonesia, the first Islamic state establishment, Demak Sultanate, one of the first preachers of Islam, the Wali Sanga.

 

[Indos]

You see Pakistan and Indonesia have big differences, Your maddrassa is like a proper university, maybe better than Pakistani universities. Whilst Pakistan maddrassa is not really a maddrassa, it's just a building where they teach Quran or memorisation of Quran, meanwhile the headquarters of maddrassas are abit more advance, they teach 6 to 8 years of islamic ulema course/mufti courses.

The problem with this is these people then have no other skills, so they become Imams, muftis or run their own maddrassas, they have been in isolated building all their lives, and now find it difficult to live in the real world. Realistically they should learn from maddrassas and then move on to colleges and universities, get degrees, professions and then teach islam aswell as work in other fields.

In Pakistan the TTP, and other extremist organisations are like Indonesia Jamme Islami movement, the closest to Muhammadiyah or Nahdatul is Minhaj ul Quran, they have Islamic sharia colleges, University, 1000 Madrasah which teach science English technology, Islamic studes etc with Quran Hifz, they actually try to learn from Indonesia Egypt Malaysia and Turkey.

I personally like Nahdatul Ulema, traditional Sunni Islam than any modern version. I liked the way you explained the difference between Muhammadiyah and Nahdatul Ulema, In Pakistan we have the same issues, alot of the extremists reject taqleed and follow their own interpretions, so according to their understanding of islam, Pakistanis are kafir and mushriks and must be converted, they reject the old historical Islam in Pakistan, meanwhile the majority of Pakistanis follow traditional Islam, another issue is since we have less literacy rate, alot of people do wrong things in the name of sufism and jihadis use this against them, among many other dodgy stuff. So our problem is not just one.

Have you ever read about how islam arrived in Indonesia, the first Islamic state establishment, Demak Sultanate, one of the first preachers of Islam, the Wali Sanga.
View attachment 140270

In my opinion, the main thing is to make Islam lead by intelligent group of Muslim within the society

Dont know with Pakistan, but in Indonesia those from Madrasa can go to learn science in university or learn Islam in university as well. We have both state owned universities in science and Islamic studies.

Those who lead Muhammadiyah and NU are from universities. Then both organization who teach those who just learn from Madrasah that teach Islam during Jumah prayer to the public

 

[RajaBaja]

In my opinion, the main thing is to make Islam lead by intelligent group of Muslim within the society

Dont know with Pakistan, but in Indonesia those from Madrasa can go to learn science in university or learn Islam in university as well. We have both state owned universities in science and Islamic studies.

Those who lead Muhammadiyah and NU are from universities. Then both organization who teach those who just learn from Madrasah that teach Islam during Jumah prayer to the public

A similar concept is in works here. Lately, the bigger masjids are seeing Imam's, etc, that have other education also, like a Bachelors or a Master's degree. Madrassas now go through a proper registration process. All education has two parts 1: Religion 2: Standard education in the field one likes.

Now there are so many ways to get the guidance one needs. Youtube has many global scholars that can guide people on issues they need guidance on. Don't have to necessarily go to the local guy if you think he's not properly educated.

 

[Indos]

A similar concept is in works here. Lately, the bigger masjids are seeing Imam's, etc, that have other education also, like a Bachelors or a Master's degree. Madrassas now go through a proper registration process. All education has two parts 1: Religion 2: Standard education in the field one likes.

Now there are so many ways to get the guidance one needs. Youtube has many global scholars that can guide people on issues they need guidance on. Don't have to necessarily go to the local guy if you think he's not properly educated.

Yup since 1990 I think Islam is spread through TV, radio, etc.

Women before the year 2000 rarely wear Hijab in Indonesia. TV does make influence, now we have many channel like Youtube as well.

For Indonesia case, there are the support from Soeharto as well since he becomes President

He makes many Mosques in Indonesia and from religious minister there are people who manage the mosque and later teach Islam

Of course since elementary school there are Islamic subject as well.

During 1955, Communist Party becomes third biggest party in Indonesia. So we can see Islam in Indonesia Today is not like even in 1955 when we had first democratic election