Lessons for Pakistan from the Israel/Iran conflict of June 2025

[hasssanali8998]

truth

 

[mythbuster]

Beyond its role in the nuclear program, go ahead and tell us about these wonderful accomplishments of the ISI. I am all ears.

ISI is successful in putting earplugs in your ears, that's one of her accomplishments .

 

[Blueishere]

If Pakistan was a university student, it would be the one with severe ADHD who skips class all semester, starts every assignment the night before, blames the professor, borrows money from friends, somehow passes with a 52, calls it resilience, and then learns absolutely nothing before doing it all again.

This is literally me.

 

[safriz]

View attachment 187616

Well what can I say.
Yiu are too young to remember iran before the Revolution.
Plus the point is , if Iranians turn the country secular today, the Pakistanis who want to burn Pakistan for iran, won't be able to do anything.
For example, before this wsr, the Iranians were protesting against Khomeini, what could Pakistanis do about it ? Nothing.

 

[hasssanali8998]

Well what can I say.
Yiu are too young to remember iran before the Revolution.
Plus the point is , if Iranians turn the country secular today, the Pakistanis who want to burn Pakistan for iran, won't be able to do anything.
For example, before this wsr, the Iranians were protesting against Khomeini, what could Pakistanis do about it ? Nothing.

what are u even saying dawg

 

[Yasser76]

That’s not saying much. A Pakistani officer was also kidnapped in Nepal, in retaliation. Besides, how many RAW sponsored assassinations inside Pakistan have been carried out since? Not to mention the streak of terror attacks inside Pakistan that continues unabated.

Cool story Bro, so where is the Pakistani officer RAW kidnapped? Name, rank, pic?
Pak does not sponsor terror in India, but glad you have acknowledged what RAW does in terms of India being a state sponsor of terror.

By the way, at one point ask RAW and IAF how we hacked Rafale comms, hope you can be "all ears" for that conversation too...

 

[Watandar]

Cool story Bro, so where is the Pakistani officer RAW kidnapped? Name, rank, pic?
Pak does not sponsor terror in India, but glad you have acknowledged what RAW does in terms of India being a state sponsor of terror.

By the way, at one point ask RAW and IAF how we hacked Rafale comms, hope you can be "all ears" for that conversation too...

It was this guy

Mystery as retired army officer goes ‘missing’ in Nepal

Col Habib last contacted his family from Lumbini, near Indian border.

www.dawn.com

 

[Oscar]

A lot of intelligence agencies failed in Afghanistan, none more so than the ISI & CIA. America is thousands of miles away and so what happens in Afghanistan might not have direct bearings on US national security. But Pakistan does no have that luxury. Pakistan has to face direct consequences of whatever happens in that country.

And I don’t think the outcomes can just be reduced to the ISI prioritizing short term gains. And it is not a sample bias, if you were to examine the ISI conduct as whole throughout the Afghanistan saga, stretching decades, a pattern emerges that the ISI has consequently miscalculated.

It’s not unfair to blame the ISI, and it is beyond budgetary reasons that the ISI is why it is the way it is. Other intelligence agencies don’t indulge in political engineering and extracurricular activities the way the ISI does. So criticism is justified.

And the ISI might be doing a fantastic job behind the scenes, but none of us are privy to that. What we do know and have access to is the publicly available evidence and that evidence does not paint the ISI is a favorable light.

I have to completely disagree with your framing here, specifically your reliance on “publicly available evidence.” Judging an intelligence agency strictly by what becomes public is a fundamental misunderstanding of how the espionage and security world actually operates.

By definition, intelligence successes remain classified, while intelligence failures become public. When an agency successfully intercepts a threat, turns an enemy asset, or secures a quiet strategic backchannel, nothing happens. It does not make the news, there are no press conferences, and the public is never “privy to it” because revealing it would burn sources and methods. But when an agency fails, a bomb goes off, a proxy goes rogue, or a political scandal leaks.
If you apply your exact “public evidence only” standard to the CIA, their public record is missing 9/11, claiming there were WMDs in Iraq, the Bay of Pigs, letting the Taliban walk back into Kabul, and getting their entire informant network in China executed. Does that mean the CIA has ceased to be an effective agency? No. It just means that when you only measure a covert organization by the things that blow up in its face, you are looking at a curated highlight reel of its worst mistakes.

Saying “we aren’t privy to their successes, so we’ll just judge them by their visible failures” is textbook confirmation bias. It is like judging a cybersecurity firewall only by the three viruses that got through, while completely dismissing the three million attacks it blocked in the background just because you couldn’t see them. You can criticize their policy choices, but using public visibility as your metric for operational competence is a deeply flawed way to analyze any intelligence service in the world.

 

[gamaji]

The fact you do not know about ISI's successes is a sign of how good it is. If PAF is a league above IAF. ISI is about 3 leagues above RAW. ISI plays against Mossad and the CIA on a daily basis. RAW cannot even stop Bangladesh from going anti-indian.

Agreed. People often forget the fact that ISI is not just fighting up against only the Indian RAW. It is, in fact, facing a tough terrorist war imposed on Pakistan by a resourceful gang of multiple regional and global agencies. Pakistani officials don't publicly say it all for whatever the reasons, but many our 'brotherly Muslim and Arab' countries are a part of that rogue gang and fully involved, directly or indirectly, in bleeding Pakistan for their own national interests. That unholy anti-Pakistan alliance might be led by the RAW but it includes agencies from the neighboring countries plus Mossad and a few western agencies too.

Pakistan has been a strong pillar of stability and peace in this region. But our neighboring states have fallen cheaply to India baits. Indians obviously follow Chanakya polices of "your enemy's enemy is your friend" and "undermine your neighbor by fostering an alliance with the neighbors of your neighbor" but many Pakistan's neighboring states are willingly available to get in alliance with India.

The brainless leaders of these neighboring states are unable or unwilling to know what it really means to be India's direct neighbor. These short-sighted leaders are bringing themselves closer to Hindutva slavery by joining hands with an expansionist Hindutva India in bleeding Pakistan. One symbolic example of the Indian mindset was observed the whole world when Indians, while riding a high horse then, gave a cold shoulder to Iranian foreign minister's 8-9 May 2025 visit to India. Indian commentators publicly abused him and one commentator even disgraced Iranians by labeling him as 'a pig's child' on his TV show. Delusional Indians then believed that they have already browbeaten Pakistan and that now all countries up to Israel must live in their real worth (i.e. in Indian slavery).

 

[gamaji]

My lessons would be

1) Our air bases are like US air bases in the GCC. Very close to the enemy and undefendable against massive drone swarms. HAS and more dispersal are the order of the day.

It's unbelievable how Americans were unable to effectively counter Iranian drones on land and at see. These drones probably caused more damage to their bases and ships than Iranian missiles. However, since US have a large and modern R&D facilities, they will come up with an effective counter measure(s) against the swarm attacks by these low flying and slow-speed drones too.

 

[Musings]

The biggest lesson is don't let your population get impressed by a foreign country more than their own.
Shia population of Pakistan are so impressed with iran that they rather turn against Pakistan in support of iran .
So many shia ulema are issuing such statements .

Thing is Iran became the "Holy land" onmy after 1979 bloody revolution.
I remember Iranian thighs and mini skirts from before that .
I also remember waves of Iranians immigrating to Pakistan to escape the the revolution as they didn't want to live under Khomeini.

But Pakistan Shia and Shia around the world existed before 1979 ?
You don't need to prove your loyalty for iran to be a Shia. You can be a Shia without that too.

Now go cry sectsrianism against me fir saying the harsh truth .

Same can be said about those that bow to wahibism and lifting saudi testicles. Bro you need to stop spreading sectarianism amongst our members.
You dont need to prove loyalty to your saudi masters. You can be a wahibee without that too.
Now whose going to cry me a river bro?

 

[gamaji]

Cool story Bro, so where is the Pakistani officer RAW kidnapped? Name, rank, pic?
Pak does not sponsor terror in India, but glad you have acknowledged what RAW does in terms of India being a state sponsor of terror.

By the way, at one point ask RAW and IAF how we hacked Rafale comms, hope you can be "all ears" for that conversation too...

I think his name was Lt. Col. (Rtd) Muhammad Habib. He was a retired officer though. He applied for a job (I think apparently under UN) with posting/interview in Nepal. As he landed there, he was kidnapped by RAW operatives. It later turned out that the whole setup was a trap to lure him come to Nepal.

This kidnapping of a retired officer was done by Indians to retaliate the arrest of Kulbhushan Yadav, the IN's terrorist commander, who was then heading a vast Indian terrorist network in Pakistan while using Irani Chabahar as his base.

 

[Yasser76]

If memory serves me well, his name was Col. Inam. He was a retired officer though. He applied for a job (I think apparently under UN) with posting/interview in Nepal. As he landed there, he was kidnapped by RAW operatives. It later turned out that the whole setup was a trap to lure him come to Nepal.

This kidnapping of a retired officer was done by Indians to retaliate the arrest of Kulbhushan Yadav, the IN's terrorist commander, who was then heading a vast Indian terrorist network in Pakistan while using Irani Chabahar as his base.

No news reports, no pictures, no legal process? Sounds like BS.

Putting this in the same file as "Abhi shot down an F-16", "Surgical Commando Strikes" and "S-400 Shot down Erieye"

Also, where is this officer now?

 

[gamaji]

No news reports, no pictures, no legal process? Sounds like BS.

Putting this in the same file as "Abhi shot down an F-16", "Surgical Commando Strikes" and "S-400 Shot down Erieye"

Also, where is this officer now?

Please google it. One such link: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-nepal-disappearance/articleshow/71193012.cms

 

[Yasser76]

Please google it. One such link: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-nepal-disappearance/articleshow/71193012.cms

Sorry, not gonna click on a BS Indian link. No Pakistani or Western media has reported this, only Modi media. You can believe that if you wish.

This is a non story.

Anyway, back to the point.

ISI is in a totally different league to RAW it is not even a fair comparison. Only yesterday IAF had to arrest another employee for leaking secrets. I think this may be the 8th arrest in last 2 years.

ISI's effectivness can be seen in the monkey in prison in Pakistan right now, hacked IAF comms, BD becoming pro Pak and Israel failing in any attempt to disrupt Pak nuke programme.

RAW does not even figure in the equation anymore. Big game is between CIA, Mossad, MI6 and ISI.

RAW can stick to trying influence the Sri Lankan elections....