Operation Azm-e-Istehkam | آپریشن عزم استحکام

[PakFactor]

No one is arguing against an operation or action against terrorists, but when you have the most terror infested province sidelined in this decisions, how do you even think it's gonna be successful?

What the establishment failed to realize in the end was that it all came down to sitting at the table from across the people you wanted to kill. As Sun Tzu said, "The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." Unless you have the ability to throw the enemy into a trench from which they can't escape, and the only solution is death.

Twenty years, one learned the hard way, sat at the table, and walked away, and then you have the mental midget still going at it. I showed the statistics in this thread or another. IK was not a good leader in his totality. He did have faults, as any human being would, but during his three years, the attacks decreased considerably and picked back up afterward. Change comes slowly and not overnight.

 

[newb3e]

kia ya pocha mouaziz fraud say allloood hai keh jo pehlay 150 operation howay us keh baad 1 aur ki zarorat kyon paar gaye? 150 fail howay toh bhai kissi mafia boss ko latkana alloood hai...jo "shaheedun" keh naam peh zameenain harpeen hain woh wapis hun geen?

 

[Goenitz]

a separate thread on resolution 901?

 

[Jango]

What the establishment failed to realize in the end was that it all came down to sitting at the table from across the people you wanted to kill. As Sun Tzu said, "The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." Unless you have the ability to throw the enemy into a trench from which they can't escape, and the only solution is death.

Twenty years, one learned the hard way, sat at the table, and walked away, and then you have the mental midget still going at it. I showed the statistics in this thread or another. IK was not a good leader in his totality. He did have faults, as any human being would, but during his three years, the attacks decreased considerably and picked back up afterward. Change comes slowly and not overnight.

There is absolutely no military solution to a problem that is so deeply entrenched in our society.

And the blame goes to the same geniuses who are now pushing this op forward.

Pehle khud Islam ko weaponize karo, aur phir ro.

 

[PakFactor]

There is absolutely no military solution to a problem that is so deeply entrenched in our society.

And the blame goes to the same geniuses who are now pushing this op forward.

Pehle khud Islam ko weaponize karo, aur phir ro.

Bold: Exactly! Last night, someone mentioned U.S. promises broken and betrayed, but there is no greater betrayal than fighting someone's war. Lastly, it was our fault we didn't have a solution to de-radicalize our society, which effectively, I would call Pakistan's lost generation. Many of my father's close university friends went to this Jihad and never came back and never heard from again, their mothers and fathers dying without knowing and many of them were the sole breadwinners.

Let it be known for the record the Afghans invited the Russians due to political instability (similar to Syria); things stabilized, and Russia's man was at the helm; these jihadis weren't in full force or capable of lasting that long until we at the behest of America decided to go full throttle.

If the Afghans have some hate for us, there is a very valid reason.

 

[FuturePAF]

Guys.. Suppose TT thinks that PA is doing this operation to please/satisfy China's concerns about its workers' safety. Wouldn't that make TTP more aggressive against the Chinese when there will be heavy casualties of TTP and common civilians?

This is why you need a multi pronged approach, so that it’s about general safety and not just about the Chinese. The irreconcilables that are targeting the Chinese (partially or totally at the behest of the Indians) need to be at the very least driven out of Pakistan.

The Chinese can continue to talk/coordinate wit the Kabul Talibs to reign in elements living and operating there, while the Islamabad government comes up with a plan approved by the KPK government and implemented by the KPK police. It’s a slow and steady approach that slowly rolls up smugglers that fund miscreants.

To directly protect where the CPEC works are working. We need a Persistent wide area surveillance system on a drone at about 17,500 feet that can cover at least a 100-150 square kilometer area. It will be able to watch that limited area very closely and check for miscreants setting up attacks.


Also work has to be done to “work with” the Mehsud tribe, so the TTP lose their narrative and shift to constructive development.

 

[AJKashmir1]

What I can tell you is things around militancy are going to get very bad from here. Entire tashkils of Taliban fighters cross daily (in around batches of 40-50) and the terrain is such that full surveillance isn't possible or blocking the border due to nature.

Afghan Taliban feels empowered planning to intensify KP insurgency, it's going to become Pakistan's Kashmir.

They claim Balochistan too which will likely be the target after KPK.

 

[FuturePAF]

What I can tell you is things around militancy are going to get very bad from here. Entire tashkils of Taliban fighters cross daily (in around batches of 40-50) and the terrain is such that full surveillance isn't possible or blocking the border due to nature.

Afghan Taliban feels empowered planning to intensify KP insurgency, it's going to become Pakistan's Kashmir.

They claim Balochistan too which will likely be the target after KPK.
View attachment 50917

This is why you work through local governments and empower the police and grow their numbers. We should seek advise from the Turkish Gendarmerie and the Malaysian VAT69 on ways and methods to combat this kind of guerrilla movement, after trying our best to have enough troops to seal the border except at government controlled crossings.

We have to be careful not to let the miscreants overwhelm us to use population wide harsh tactics. Just look at how America couldn’t control lawlessness for 30 years, from 1965 to 1995.

Even parts of the capital, DC were burning in 1968 and black kids looked at black soldiers with fright, just as I would think Pashtun kids would look at Pashtun soldiers if heavy handed tactics are used. But police can be a more measured response, and more relatable to the public.

 

[GriffinsRule]

PTI-supporter = TTP

Instead of deleting this post, I want to keep it here so people can see what you think of majority of Pakistanis

 

[Goenitz]

This is why you need a multi pronged approach, so that it’s about general safety and not just about the Chinese. The irreconcilables that are targeting the Chinese (partially or totally at the behest of the Indians) need to be at the very least driven out of Pakistan.

The Chinese can continue to talk/coordinate wit the Kabul Talibs to reign in elements living and operating there, while the Islamabad government comes up with a plan approved by the KPK government and implemented by the KPK police. It’s a slow and steady approach that slowly rolls up smugglers that fund miscreants.

To directly protect where the CPEC works are working. We need a Persistent wide area surveillance system on a drone at about 17,500 feet that can cover at least a 100-150 square kilometer area. It will be able to watch that limited area very closely and check for miscreants setting up attacks.


Also work has to be done to “work with” the Mehsud tribe, so the TTP lose their narrative and shift to constructive development.

I was just polking the narrative. As TTPs were against drone attacks (by the US), and they took PA as collaborators, so they started attacking PA in 2006/7 etc.

Now, prominent Chinese help (drones, ACs, political statements) will make the Chinese a more visible target as PA is doing this operation for Chinese sake mainly (COAS nd PM visit to China and Chinese minister coming to Isloo).

For the rest of the argument (drones, surveillance), I think shamefully, we should allow Chinese soldiers on our soil to guard the Chinese like African countries. We have failed (Hunza, Neelam) and had narrow escapes many times (Gawadar PC, Chinese counsellor in Quetta)

 

[Areesh]

See the shit show. This guy is completely contradicting his own defense minister.

@Areesh

That’s why there are serious trust issues.

These guys are clowns and nobody denies that

But ttp threat is real and PTI needs to have some policy to counter since it is ruling kpk. It is PTI government responsibility just kachai k daaku are of PPP

 

[Areesh]

LMAO! You need to fix your bias first and then come back LOL!

This is absolutely hilarious! This guy is blaming PTI for all the mess of 2005-2017. Actually we can go even further back, the mess of 80's is also responsible for what we are witnessing today.

You need you head checked. Your obsession with PTI will drive you crazy. HOW on EARTH you can BLAME them when they even didn't existed when you were doing your blunders and creating terrorism? If you really have to blame political people then blame PMLN / PPP for their shitty policies that allowed all the terrorism to start because they ruled the country from 90's to 2017. In their rule terrorism flourished. But I am not like you a dumb bias, I blame the ones who are truly responsible. These are General Zia first and then General Musharraf. Then failures of ISI & military throughout.

Blaming a provinicial govt for your own mess ups that pre-dates its creation can be done only by a totally mind fucked guy. That's apparently you. Sorry, but I had to be blunt. How on earth you even live with such stupidity. You are essentially saying Jamie is killed because of John. But the fact is John wasn't even born when Jamie was killed. Try to grasp your mind over when and how terrorism started and who are responsible people for it. Develop enough maturity to understand that GHQ won't let anyone run foreign affairs how come they will let security affairs run by someone else. Try to understand that where the authority lies, try to understand who gets the funds for this specific job. Being a bais & brainwashed all the time don't look good.

You can keep blaming policies of 80s and 90s and even martians for ttp but the fact still remains the same that since PTI is ruling kpk it needs to have a clear and strong policy against ttp and its terrorism
There is no bias against anyone. It is simple logic

 

[FuturePAF]

I was just polking the narrative. As TTPs were against drone attacks (by the US), and they took PA as collaborators, so they started attacking PA in 2006/7 etc.

Now, prominent Chinese help (drones, ACs, political statements) will make the Chinese a more visible target as PA is doing this operation for Chinese sake mainly (COAS nd PM visit to China and Chinese minister coming to Isloo).

For the rest of the argument (drones, surveillance), I think shamefully, we should allow Chinese soldiers on our soil to guard the Chinese like African countries. We have failed (Hunza, Neelam) and had narrow escapes many times (Gawadar PC, Chinese counsellor in Quetta)

I still don’t think letting the Chinese military in Pakistan is the answer. We need to reform the military to be able to do these role. Otherwise, let CPEC slow down, because if we can’t provide security ourselves we can’t find the means to pay back the loans. Lack of will in the most basic of things means lack of will when it’s the harder things.

 

[Dalit]

PTI-supporter = TTP

Did Asim Munir tell you this?

 

[Dalit]

TTP is a arm of the Afghan Taliban. They are controlled by Kabul.
If you want to defeat TTP you have to defeat Taliban sitting in Kabul.
Afghan Taliban were useful to defeat the NATO installed regime.
Now it's time to change the old strategic depth BS and neutralise the Afghan Taliban and TTP.
Remember the history of Pakistan and Afghanistan - unfriendly neighbours - .
The world recognises the Durand Line as the international border except for Afghanistan. In 1948 the UN recognised Pakistan as a independent country except for Afghanistan. There is a history of animosity between the two countries and it has not changed.

Afghanistan needs to be tackled. No doubt about it.