peagle
Trusted Member
I agree 100%, perhaps 99%. Despite being a life long atheist i'm still proud to be a Muslim, it's central to my existence. I think most people find it difficult to understand, obviously i'm not including you. We Pakistanis don't crush Muslims, full-stop. We can punish, which is a better word then crush and achieves the same result.
When you crush someone or something there's rarely a comeback, I believe word choice is important. I agree with most of what has been said in this thread but we're extremely poor at word choice, it destroys the entire argument.
Any discussion has three parts,
1. The argument itself (50%)
2. The precepts under which that discussion is taking place. (25%)
3. Word choice, the words we use in the discussion carry meanings and imply interpretations far beyond what's being said. It totally changes the nature of the discussion. (25%)
We are good at point 1, capable of holding our own but are extremely poor at 2 and 3. I regularly come across good arguments by Pakistanis completely destroyed by poor word choice and precepts. I personally think you have a good grasp on matters but because we exist in a echo system that's lacking it rubs off on us.
It's been a while since I've stop concentrating purely on facts, facts are each to their own. What message is being created from those facts is far more important, that's where point 2 and 3 come into play, word choice and the principles under which that discussion is being constructed.
South Asia vs subcontinent completely changes the meaning of a discussion.
Pakistan was created vs Independence. Bana tha vs Azadi.
"we were one country" is factually incorrect.
referring to the history of this entire region as India, is factually incorrect and changes the meaning entirely.
India, Hindustan and bharat are three different words with entirely different meanings with no basis in reality in terms of how they are presented.
Ashoka as some sort of moniker to represent the unit of this fantasy India. That empire lasted a mere 50 years, which is nothing, just meaningless. You can't count from tiny kingdom to non existence, you can only judge by how long it lasted at full extant.
I'm just touching the basics of the topic but the point being, words matter, principles under which a discussion is structured matters. Otherwise, what's the point?
I am also angry and filled with rage, but what does that achieve, nothing. So the best way is try to rationalise because there is always the day after, that day will come and we don't want to be in a state of wanting, that's where we are now. The ifs and buts, if we had done this or that, the endless buts.
That will happen, unless we account for it now.
Just to give few examples to reinforce points for others.
The most moral army in the world, because words matter.
India has a radical Hindu government but you'll never hear the words radical, extremist or fundamentalist in association with India or Hinduism.
Either extremely rarely or just a meaningless terms like Hindutva.
Those labels only belong to Islam or Pakistan, because words matter.
Or the latest fad, Islamism, because words matter.
Few Indian members started using the term radical Hindus to refer to the Indian government, but one of the Indian moderators stopped them, because words matter.
Pakistani lot, they find words when one isn't negative enough, because they simply don't understand, that words matter.
Terrorist state at every opportunity, because words matter.
The entire post Second World war financial structure is based on lending money, and giving aid, Pakistan is way down the list, but begging state only applies to one country, because words matter.
Don't forget to mention genocide, rape and language suppression when mentioning Bangladesh, because words matter.
I have done my own comparative study looking at census in East Pakistan and West Pakistan from 1951 to 1981 Bangladesh. There's no significant change in population. Where are the missing people?
Not in the census, they are still alive and accounted for. Not to say bad things didn't happen, I'm strictly referring to the numbers.
Fantasy of 10 million refugees, because words matter. No matter the UNHCR wrote to the Indian government at the end of January 1972, that's merely month after the end of the war, to start planning on return of the refugees.
The Indian government replied they have all returned. If you think 10 million refugees can return to their homeland in a month then it was a true figure, if not, then it was a fantasy, but hush, shhhh, because words matter.
Our piss poor historians and experts are simply incapable of an original thought, only capable of repeat existing narratives.
The language issue is also pure BS, I have the facts, but don't forget to remind the world otherwise, because words matter.
You specifically referred to Kabuli class and so on, that's more appropriate then what has been said throughout this thread. You cannot call out all Afghans, even if it's true, it creates a circle that's hard to escape.
Labels such as the harami lot, or Kabuli types, Talibanis, I don't know anything is far more impactful and far easier to climb down from when the time comes, because words matter.
