PAF Attrition 2024

[Cryptonian]

No ISPR press release but there is always a news piece which has the PAF confirming the crash with a statement like
"QUETTA: A pilot was killed when his Pakistan Air Force plane crashed Wednesday during a training mission in Balochistan province, an air force spokesman said
“It was a Chinese-made F-7PG training aircraft,” Air Commodore Anis Mirza told AFP.
The plane crashed in Pishin district, 65 kilometres north of the provincial capital Quetta, during a “routine” training mission, he said, adding that the pilot “embraced martyrdom”.
The cause of the crash was not immediately known, he said. An investigation is under way."

Pilot killed in PAF plane crash

A pilot was killed when his Pakistan Air Force plane crashed Wednesday during a training mission in Balochistan province, an air force spokesman said.

www.dawn.com

The JF-17 lost over the sea - total silence. This one - total silence and news confirmed by Martin Baker. Clearly there is a certain sensitivity to a JF-17 crashing.

Indeed, Recent Mirage 3 crash was also freely reported by Dawn without repercussions. But this one...

 

[ThirdFaculty]

No ISPR press release but there is always a news piece which has the PAF confirming the crash with a statement like
"QUETTA: A pilot was killed when his Pakistan Air Force plane crashed Wednesday during a training mission in Balochistan province, an air force spokesman said
“It was a Chinese-made F-7PG training aircraft,” Air Commodore Anis Mirza told AFP.
The plane crashed in Pishin district, 65 kilometres north of the provincial capital Quetta, during a “routine” training mission, he said, adding that the pilot “embraced martyrdom”.
The cause of the crash was not immediately known, he said. An investigation is under way."

Pilot killed in PAF plane crash

A pilot was killed when his Pakistan Air Force plane crashed Wednesday during a training mission in Balochistan province, an air force spokesman said.

www.dawn.com

The JF-17 lost over the sea - total silence. This one - total silence and news confirmed by Martin Baker. Clearly there is a certain sensitivity to a JF-17 crashing.

There’s a reason why The FC-1 is not selling like it was supposed to. The reports of airframe problems seem to be true.
I feel like PAF wanted to pump them out and didn’t care so much of the quality of the product as long as it was an upgrade from the current inventory

 

[Raider 21]

I wonder why USAF publicly discloses F-35, F-22, B-2 crashes.

Their air force owes their taxpayers with answers when incidents like that occur.

 

[JamD]

There’s a reason why The FC-1 is not selling like it was supposed to. The reports of airframe problems seem to be true.
I feel like PAF wanted to pump them out and didn’t care so much of the quality of the product as long as it was an upgrade from the current inventory

I don't think JF-17 has airframe problems. I don't think this is an unusual number of incidents. It is just weird that PAF tries to hide these like its afraid it'll affect its sales.

There are several much bigger reasons for it not capturing the international market: competition, production, tech, weapons, marketing, geopolitics, lots of stuff.

 

[Oscar]

I don't think JF-17 has airframe problems. I don't think this is an unusual number of incidents. It is just weird that PAF tries to hide these like its afraid it'll affect its sales.

There are several much bigger reasons for it not capturing the international market: competition, production, tech, weapons, marketing, geopolitics, lots of stuff.

That’s because people who do not understand marketing , value proposition and so on are giving directions.

The F-16 has a crash record all the way to having a movie made on just that subject…
The gripen has its recorded on video

Yet, the reason they sold goes well beyond crash perception and has to do with relationships, targeted marketing efforts and using every aspect of the relationship for the prospect both military and civilian to close the deal.

Anyway… whats the point

 

[Nilgiri]

That’s because people who do not understand marketing , value proposition and so on are giving directions.

Don't understand the streisand effect either heh. More you cover up, the more you generate interest/attention to it....regd systems that have sufficient information flow to begin with.

Now the matter is made worse in end, an element of "what do you have to hide?" is added automatically to the product.....compared to one that you treat as same as everything else out there.

 

[Oscar]

Don't understand the streisand effect either heh. More you cover up, the more you generate interest/attention to it....regd systems that have sufficient information flow to begin with.

Now the matter is made worse in end, an element of "what do you have to hide?" is added automatically to the product.....compared to one that you treat as same as everything else out there.

Yep - you don’t cover up crashes - but pivot the convo. They should have milked the heck out of swift retort and previous JF-17 combat operations - show them live in combat.

They should not have spent 15 years at airshows talking to cost effectiveness when speaking to Arab states with full pockets - instead talk to them about having maximum capability with leverage to use if they are denied hardware.

This should have been pitched to Serbia and pushed all into South America - instead of letting the Chinese manage that relationship which put the US worried.

Unfortunately, both due to a mix of internal competition from the Chinese and the lack of actual SME in marketing the time for the JF-17 is done.

The Tejas will stand land 1 sale or two even after a crash because I know the brightest of the ICS will be in the embassy pushing it and dining connections unlike the barely qualified paperweights Pakistani embassies have as staff.

 

[DDG-80]

 

[AJKashmir1]

That’s because people who do not understand marketing , value proposition and so on are giving directions.

The F-16 has a crash record all the way to having a movie made on just that subject…
The gripen has its recorded on video

Yet, the reason they sold goes well beyond crash perception and has to do with relationships, targeted marketing efforts and using every aspect of the relationship for the prospect both military and civilian to close the deal.

Anyway… whats the point

So incompetency and wrong people in wrong places strike again... the same story always with Pakistan

 

[Reichmarshal]

The higher the sortie rate of a particular type of ac.....the higher the chances of accidents.

The imp thing is the pilot is fine ......the ac can be replaced

 

[AJKashmir1]

The higher the sortie rate of a particular type of ac.....the higher the chances of accidents.

The imp thing is the pilot is fine ......the ac can be replaced

We need a ratio for number of flight hours to crashes to truly make a comparison

 

[hussain0216]

There’s a reason why The FC-1 is not selling like it was supposed to. The reports of airframe problems seem to be true.
I feel like PAF wanted to pump them out and didn’t care so much of the quality of the product as long as it was an upgrade from the current inventory

So 18 years of flying and has bombed India, Iran and Afghanistan and your great thoughts is that airframe problems

Which plane has India flown for 18 years and had only 4-5 crashes

 

[Fatman17]

F-16 Aircraft Database​

F-16 Accidents & Mishaps for the Pakistan Air Force​

[Back to F-16 Aircraft Database menu | Missing Photos | Hall of Fame]


Found 10 aircraft, displaying 1- 10 [Sorted by Date]
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Date	Status	Local S/N	Aircraft	AF/Unit	Version	Info	Details
22 Oct 1994​	[ w/o]​	82701​	81- 0899​	PAF 11 sqn​	F-16A Block 15 E​	​	Details​
​	Crashed near Sargodha AB after suffering a birdhit. The pilot ejected safely.
04 Sep 1989​	[ w/o]​	84712​	81- 0910​	PAF 38 TW​	F-16A Block 15 Q​	​	Details​
​	During a night sortie and a few minutes after take-off from Sargodha AB, the wingman informed his lead - Sqn.Ldr. Zafar Ahsan - and ground control that he is disoriented. They tried to help by repeatedly telling him to concentrate on the instruments but he crashed a few miles from Sarghoda, killing the pilot.
29 Apr 1987​	[ w/o]​	85720​	81- 0918​	PAF 14 sqn​	F-16A Block 15 S​	​	Details​
​	Shot down by Wing Commander Amjad Javed - mistakenly shooting down his wingman. Flight Lieutenant Shahid Sikandar Khan ejected safely.
17 Mar 1994​	[ w/o]​	85721​	81- 0919​	PAF 14 sqn​	F-16A Block 15 S​	​	Details​
​	Crashed near Sargodha AB due to spatial dissorientation. The pilot was killed in the accident.
16 Jun 1991​	[ w/o]​	85723​	81- 0921​	PAF 9 sqn​	F-16A Block 15 T​	​	Details​
​	On a night training mission with one other F-16. Returning to Kamra AB to land suffered an engine failure forcing Squadron Leader Syed Hassan Raza to eject.
27 Oct 1991​	[ w/o]​	85725​	81- 0923​	PAF 14 sqn​	F-16A Block 15 U​	​	Details​
​	Crashed in Attock, Pakistan after it suffered an engine failure during a dogfight training mission with the pilot, Squadron Leader Nadeem Anjum, ejected safely. The engine failure was caused by installing not an original part in the engine during routine maintenance.
​	​

 

[Fatman17]

10 Nov 1993​	[ w/o]​	84607​	81- 0937​	PAF 38 TW​	F-16B Block 15 N​	​	Details​
​	Crash caused by a birdhit. Both pilots, Squadron Leader Khawaja Abdul Majeed and Squadron Leader Nawaz, ejected safely.
18 Dec 1986​	[ w/o]​	85609​	81- 1504​	PAF 38 TW​	F-16B Block 15 U​	​	Details​
​	The aircraft took off from Sargodha AB and hit a wild boar causing the two pilots to eject. One of them was Sqn Ldr Faaiz Amir.
17 Jul 2009​	[ w/o]​	92729​	92- 0405​	​	F-16A Block 15 AQ OCU​	News Article​	Details​
​	The plane was on a routine night training mission when it crashed close to village of NurPur, 105km south west of Sargodha. The pilot, Squadron Leader Saud Ghulam Nabi, was sadly killed.
11 Mar 2020​	[ w/o]​	92730​	92- 0406​	PAF 9 sqn​	F-16A Block 20 MLU​	​	Details​
​	Crashed during practice rehearsals for the Pakistan Day military parade over the capital of Islamabad with the loss of the pilot, Wing Commander Noman Akram Shaheed.