PAF Conducts Successful Test Launch of Taimoor ALCM

[arsalan345]

Tell France and uk to ditch Scalp/storm shadow, Germany to ditch KEPD and US to burn all JASSM stockpiles.

You understand that it will follow waypoints planned to avoid AD and will be part of an over all mission and not a single missile.

Do you really think that this missile is scalp? Wake up. We have seen how hard it's to penetrate layered Indian air defence systems. Do you think this missile will travel 600 km and India will allow it to travel without interceptions? Current modern missiles that are really working are hypersonic cruise missiles. Israel was unable to stop Iranian hypersonic missiles. You may argue that scalp penetrated Pakistani air defence. Well, Pakistan didn't pay attention to air defense systems. We don't have improved layered air defence systems like India.this missile isn't scalp. I think we should be real. I can behave like a fanboy but I don't.

 

[arsalan345]

So, the supersonic Missile you are talking about, Brahmos, weighs 3 tons. Because to achieve and sustain supersonic flight, the missile needs significantly more structural integrity, heat management and fuel, than a subsonic missile of same range.

As a result IAF had to specially modify 60 or so , of their SU-30 MKI fleet to be able to carry just a single Brahmos underbelly .
the modified SU-30 MKI went through permanent changes, in the form of additional stiffening of airframe, and made the aircrafts permanently heavy , reducing the aircraft range.

Again due to weight , no other aircrafts in the entire IAF fleet can carry the Brahmos, other than the specially modified MKI.

As per IAF sources , during Op Sindoor , 19 Brahmos were fired on Pakistan. How many actually hit the target? I guess one hit Shahbaz base? One hit a ground Radar in Sukkhur?
The other 17 went where?
many didnt even make it to Pakistan.
Here is a video of Brahmos debris in Indian territory.

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This is not part of this discussion. These Indian missiles did real damage on our side just because of their hypersonic speed. It's hard to intercept. Subsonic systems are easy to intercept but currently, there is lots of improvements going on in other systems like scalp. Clearly this missile is not scalp. In a future war which is quite near, India will fire more than 200 brahmos. Can we reply in the same manner? For this, we need similar systems like brahmos. We don't have any such system. This is reality. You can use this new missile with all the new ai involved. Can it still make it to the desired target? I doubt it. India now makes interceptors. Pakistan needs hypersonic missiles. That's it. People are giving examples of scalp. This is not scalp. You can see in the video that it missed the target. I doubt that India will allow it to travel 100 km inside their territory.this is my point.

 

[PakAl]

It was Nawaz Sharif Bao Ji who made babur cruise missile.

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Tom Cruise missile. Wa Mian Sahib kya baat hei.

 

[PakAl]

What is the difference between Raad 2 and Taimoor missile. Is it upgrade or completely different missile.

 

[hasssanali8998]

Army

"hafiz sahab " , although i did feel Sidhu was doing too much the whole story of sleeping on the floor and saying "kill them" was kinda cringey
real heroes were the pilots and soldiers on LOC

 

[Samurai]

Not Jammed. But shot down easily by an Infrared sam missile or by a radar guided missile. Afterall it is a slow moving target. Either you release this missile in saturation or do what russians did

Russian Kh-101 Cruise Missile Filmed Firing-Off Decoy Flares

Kh-101 missiles with built-in countermeasures emerged earlier this year, but this is the first time this capability has been seen in use.

www.twz.com

Do you think a cruise missile during flight releasing flares will actually be able to counter SAM? If Pakistan can use such novel solution on its CM, would that be able to counter S400 missiles or any other GBAD's?

 

[hasssanali8998]

If Pakistan can use such novel solution on its CM, would that be able to counter S400 missiles or any other GBAD's?

ir seeking missiles yes . but kh01 is simple just releases them when it is almost at the target

 

[Toxic]

ir seeking missiles yes . but kh01 is simple just releases them when it is almost at the target

If you are talking IR missiles with very old seekers then yes, I see flares on missiles as the same category of cope as tank dazzlers.

 

[Vkdindian1]

This is not part of this discussion. These Indian missiles did real damage on our side just because of their hypersonic speed. It's hard to intercept. Subsonic systems are easy to intercept but currently, there is lots of improvements going on in other systems like scalp. Clearly this missile is not scalp. In a future war which is quite near, India will fire more than 200 brahmos. Can we reply in the same manner? For this, we need similar systems like brahmos. We don't have any such system. This is reality. You can use this new missile with all the new ai involved. Can it still make it to the desired target? I doubt it. India now makes interceptors. Pakistan needs hypersonic missiles. That's it. People are giving examples of scalp. This is not scalp. You can see in the video that it missed the target. I doubt that India will allow it to travel 100 km inside their territory.this is my point.

Actually, Indian forces have gone an overdrive to fill the gaps and bolster the existing AD systems. There is also talk of better point defence systems for very very short ranges. If a missile/aircraft slips through longer range AD, these point defence systems would tackle those.

How fast that happens is anybody’s guess.

 

[falcon34]

This depends on the cost structure and production system.

Currently, the information is limited. We don't know how much of this missile is of Pakistani origin (including the localization of all components). We also don't know the exact performance parameters of the missile. ------ This is all classified information, and official agencies will not release it. Even the information that is released often contains a lot of inaccurate information. This is standard practice for all military organizations.

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But, there is an approach in modern military industrial systems that Pakistan could consider.

Iran was among the first to adapt numerous civilian systems for military use, developing the Shahed-136 drone.
In the Russia-Ukraine war, civilian, consumer-grade small UAVs/FPVs have been widely used.
Chinese private companies have successfully controlled the cost of hypersonic missiles to around 1 million RMB per day unit by using civilian technology standards and civilian components.

Pakistan could use this approach to drastically reduce the cost of this missile.

The essence of modern warfare is a contest of economic and productive capabilities.

This is not part of this discussion. These Indian missiles did real damage on our side just because of their hypersonic speed. It's hard to intercept. Subsonic systems are easy to intercept but currently, there is lots of improvements going on in other systems like scalp. Clearly this missile is not scalp. In a future war which is quite near, India will fire more than 200 brahmos. Can we reply in the same manner? For this, we need similar systems like brahmos. We don't have any such system. This is reality. You can use this new missile with all the new ai involved. Can it still make it to the desired target? I doubt it. India now makes interceptors. Pakistan needs hypersonic missiles. That's it. People are giving examples of scalp. This is not scalp. You can see in the video that it missed the target. I doubt that India will allow it to travel 100 km inside their territory.this is my point.

It has better chances of penetrating any AD than SCM. It can only be detected in the last 40 kms. Manuevers and stealth features and high subsonic speed will make any interception highly especially when used along side Blaze and Sarfarosh series of loitering munitions.

 

[hasssanali8998]

Actually, Indian forces have gone an overdrive to fill the gaps and bolster the existing AD systems. There is also talk of better point defence systems for very very short ranges. If a missile/aircraft slips through longer range AD, these point defence systems would tackle those.

How fast that happens is anybody’s guess.

well Taimoor wont be the first to be used , we will probably use cheaper systems first drones/f1/f2 then Taimoor's .
but the best place for them is Kashmir and northern valleys i imagine it sneaking through.
anyways wont know how well it works until war happens

 

[Vkdindian1]

but the best place for them is Kashmir and northern valleys i imagine it sneaking through.

There are very few major military installations in that part of India. A weapon when developed, has to be not restricted by these factors.

In my view, it would add to the mix of missiles available with Pakistan, under non-nuclear category. That is flexibility to mix and match, which was lacking in May 25.

anyways wont know how well it works until war happens

Yes. That would be the true test.

 

[Bilal]

TJ were shown in last IDEAS. Rocket boosted already exists, with shorter range compared to TJ powered .

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[White Privilege]

Actually, Indian forces have gone an overdrive to fill the gaps and bolster the existing AD systems. There is also talk of better point defence systems for very very short ranges. If a missile/aircraft slips through longer range AD, these point defence systems would tackle those.

How fast that happens is anybody’s guess.

Understandable, Indians would like to stick to lobbing Brahmos and then absorb the PAF counter attack with a thorough AD, for as many days as possible.

 

[hasssanali8998]

There are very few major military installations in that part of India. A weapon when developed, has to be not restricted by these factors.

this is what i was thinking ( i know its overly simple but just an example ) , its strongest benefit is waypoint stuff , that can help it to avoid the densest ADs and only compete with SHORADs or less ADs systems hence increasing its chances of hitting . as you can see it opens up many possibilities , and yes this is problem for us too with SCALP ( assuming SCALP has the same stuff) now both of us have the same problem