PAF Conducts Successful Test Launch of Taimoor ALCM

[puttputt]

@JamD

Thanks for the great technical contributions to the thread. Your claims that Pakistan still lacks in critical aspects of missile technology is quite worrying, especially as Pakistan has had decades of experience in missile production. If they are still struggling, then that means the technical knowledge isn’t as developed as we often assume, and might not even compare to Iran and North Korea, let alone India.

The issue is that Pakistan may have decades of experience producing missiles, but it lacks both the experience and capacity to produce those missiles at scale.

This is an economic problem in general and an industrial constraint in particular. We don't have policies, let alone mechanisms and funding, geared towards industrial defence programming.

Hence why we're at a point where some folks (including our resident ex-PAF IR scholar) are stuck on PAC apparently being better at making JF-17s than HAL is with Tejas, but completely, entirely, and shamelessly ignoring how HAL can source alloys, composites, DEECs inputs, gas turbine inputs, flight control systems, etc, etc, all indigenously while PAC must import all of that from China or other sources.

In general, our side can't even converse or think clearly on this matter, much less come to an understanding of what's necessary, hence why people like @JamD have to repeat this over and over and over again until it lands.

And the bigger tragedy is that we did have industrial experts, i.e., the many folks and entities that contributed towards our nuclear program. Thus, if nat-sec leadership held itself accountable, we probably could rekindle the spirit and start building that industrial capacity.

 

[safriz]

Arey bhai jaan. There was no C2 node there - neither underground nor those buildings.

Been personally there on ground at that location not very long ago.

I don't know why does this damage stuff pop up again and again.

Well then.. You can thank us for spreading the wrong info and making Indians believe that these facilities are at Nur Khan.... You welcome.
Recommend me for an award. I diverted Indian attack to a wrong location with my years of Posting wrong info all over the Internet. ... Saday Laiq Aur koi Khidmat ?

 

[hasssanali8998]

Well the... You can thank us for spreading the wrong info and making Indians believe that these facilities are at Nur Khan.... You welcome.

dude that is such a aledeen ( the guy from dictator) response

 

[Falcon26]

The issue is that Pakistan may have decades of experience producing missiles, but it lacks both the experience and capacity to produce those missiles at scale.

This is an economic problem in general and an industrial constraint in particular. We don't have policies, let alone mechanisms and funding, geared towards industrial defence programming.

Hence why we're at a point where some folks (including our resident ex-PAF IR scholar) are stuck on PAC apparently being better at making JF-17s than HAL is with Tejas, but completely, entirely, and shamelessly ignoring how HAL can source alloys, composites, DEECs inputs, gas turbine inputs, flight control systems, etc, etc, all indigenously while PAC must import all of that from China or other sources.

In general, our side can't even converse or think clearly on this matter, much less come to an understanding of what's necessary, hence why people like @JamD have to repeat this over and over and over again until it lands.

And the bigger tragedy is that we did have industrial experts, i.e., the many folks and entities that contributed towards our nuclear program. Thus, if nat-sec leadership held itself accountable, we probably could rekindle the spirit and start building that industrial capacity.

Thanks for the additional insights. Having read The Islamic Bomb, Eating Grass and Mansoor Ahmed’s Pakistan’s pathway to the bomb, I have been amazed at the resilience and resourcefulness, not to mention the sheer determination, of Pakistan’s nuclear establishment in getting the bomb. I imagined similar trait existed in the missile program. Unfortunately, it seems GHQ has also poisoned Pakistan’s strategic community by introducing politics and toxicity.

 

[Cipher212]

Kirana hills, Bholari, C2 node at Nur Khan, RYK Terminal, list is actually quite soberingly long. Although whether they were all Brahmos... dunno.

Well... a lot of people said the IAF was grounded, yet during 10th May we saw Air launched munitions used extensively indicating IAF involvement. Yet PAF saw nowhere near the same level of success in engaging them on the first day.

Kirana Hills seems to be a miss. I think the impact point was geolocated on this forum some time back. There's absolutely nothing there. Closest building is a sentry post.


I think the 2 hits at RYK barely count. Isn't that airport only used by VVIPs.

 

[puttputt]

Thanks for the additional insights. Having read The Islamic Bomb, Eating Grass and Mansoor Ahmed’s Pakistan’s pathway to the bomb, I have been amazed at the resilience and resourcefulness, not to mention the sheer determination, of Pakistan’s nuclear establishment in getting the bomb. I imagined similar trait existed in the missile program. Unfortunately, it seems GHQ has also poisoned Pakistan’s strategic community by introducing politics and toxicity.

It's not just GHQ. Rather, our society breeds a certain class of parasite (i.e., babu-dakus) who spread themselves into every corner of our structure, be it the political system, bureaucracy, GHQ, and so on.

The only place where they couldn't take control are true private sector companies (emphasis on "true" because the rent-seeking wholesaler importers are just babu-daku creations).

In the true private sector, what matters isn't your creed, your caste, your tribe, your officer rank, etc., but straight up P&L and the KPIs that feed into P&L. In that environment, baku-dakus die like roaches in acid.

So, their "solution" has been to gut the true private sector by breaking the economy's incentives structure, i.e., overtax freelancers, throttle the internet, keep high taxes on manufacturers (or steal their IP), nationalization (e.g., of the 22 industrialist families pre-1970s), trash Karachi, and so on.

What we make in the way of hard-currency inflows is a result of the hard work done in Sialkot, the minerals in Baluchistan, the ports in Karachi, and other very limited, small-scale vestiges of what made Pakistan great.

The babu-dakus destroyed everything else. It won't change until we, as a society, expose and roast these buggers out in the open. These roaches can't even let us have a Goddamn good cricket team. There are entire juntas in Latin America who can produce FIFA World Cup winning teams but our babu-dakus won't even give us that basic courtesy.

PS: You'll notice from Mansoor's book parts about how the babu-dakus tried taking over the nuclear weapons program. Thank God Zia ul-Haq didn't fall for their BS at the time and, remarkably, neither did BB (despite her flaws).

 

[ThoroughPro]

Arey bhai jaan. There was no C2 node there - neither underground nor those buildings.

Been personally there on ground at that location not very long ago.

I don't know why does this damage stuff pop up again and again.

let them think it is there, works for us

 

[safriz]

let them think it is there, works for us

Same as Kirana hills were full of Nuclear weapons

 

[Gripen9]

Arey bhai jaan. There was no C2 node there - neither underground nor those buildings.

Been personally there on ground at that location not very long ago.

I don't know why does this damage stuff pop up again and again.

My abba was SSO-AD ADC back in 87/88. Even then the CoC (don’t know what the current term is now) was nowhere near Nur Khan AB

The buildingvthat was impacted at Nur Khan looked like the Air Movement building. I have not been to that lace in like 30 years now

 

[Gripen9]

Kirana Hills seems to be a miss. I think the impact point was geolocated on this forum some time back. There's absolutely nothing there. Closest building is a sentry post.


I think the 2 hits at RYK barely count. Isn't that airport only used by VVIPs.

What ended up at Kirana Hills was a spoofed Brahmos away from Mushaf AFB.
RYK is civ airport used bybthe Emaratis for their hunting jaunts.

 

[falcon34]

I strongly agree. China does offer one such dedicated ALCM called the CM-98 (export version), and it weighs, as per Janes, around 1,000 kg, but the real issue with it is its range. The export version only has a range of about 299 km, and the one that China uses, called the AKF-98, has a range exceeding 500 km and looks slightly larger (?) than its export version. The AKF-98 is integrated with J-16 and JH-7A2 jets.

View attachment 169978
View attachment 169979

Alan Warnes revealed the range of CM-400AKG in that AFM article to be ~400 km as per PAF officials, so since CM-400AKG too is a Chinese product, integrated with both JF-17s and J-10CEs, and we all know the story of PL-15'E' catching that Rafale's ass at around 200 km, I am guessing that China could provide us with a Pakistan-specific export version of this ALCM with, of course, some degraded capabilities from the original one, which is used by the PLAAF (AKF-98). Maybe Deino or @Michael can shed some light on this?

Bhi kyun Michael ko tag karte phir apni bongiyan marae ga a kar wo

 

[Michael]

Maybe Deino or @Michael can shed some light on this?

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you would like me to explain?

MTCR?

The Chinese government has publicly committed to complying with the MTCR. Therefore, all weapons sold by China comply with the MTCR.

However, if a customer modifies the product privately after receiving it, China is not responsible for the consequences.

 

[Ibbi32]

it already bigger because of jeff ( i think our Azerbaijan deal is like 2 times their annual export )

If im not wrong 9 billion this year . Almost 1/4th of our regular yearly exports iirc. Just makes it all the more sad how govt can revitalise the defence sector but keeps screwing up other industries.

 

[hasssanali8998]

it all the more sad how govt can revitalise the defence sector but keeps screwing up other industries.

thank you modi ji

 

[Gripen9]

Koi masla nahi surma aur topi laga lo, you will blend back in.

Add that tight metal taweez around the neck just to be on the safe side