PAF Conducts Successful Test Launch of Taimoor ALCM

[iron shrapnel]

@iron shrapnel

See what I mean, the best of products can fail

Its just how it is

True brother, again issue isn't just failing it's the frequency of failures and under what conditions...

 

[Oscar]

Your point that the military comes from the society is well taken but we have to admit its quite acute in the military, right? I mean one just has to go into any SPD org to realize the disproportionate level of this trait in the faujis. Everyone has several personal stories (including me). I mean I don't want to put blinders on just to be "fair to both sides".

Any organization or “training” amplifies existing traits.
Why is it that Pakistanis can get both rigid and yet personally hypocritical with religion?
It reflects the society.

Why is plagiarism and so on common in academia? Because from the get go shortcuts are taught to Pakistanis through secondary input in society.

“Jaldi se kaam khatam karo”
“Baro se behes nahi karte”
“Aap ko kya pata iss ke baray mein”

Wherever you take that - it’s amplified by the institution or training.

 

[Oscar]

Honestly, I have myself seen enough such uncles, so I try not to be one. I tend to continue a debate for better understanding of what's being said.

I haven't resorted to cussing in any post and will move on now from their jibes. But this kind of debate is definitely new for me, where you have to agree with them or will be labeled a stubborn ignorant officer.

I always recommend to anyone on any side of any argument - and not directed to you but at large- before you get into presenting opinions or arguments, please take time to read

The impact this book has had on both my professional and even personal relationships is immense but also my learning.

 

[krash]

No one. Not for an instant has the common sense to "think again". What if I am wrong.

It's when they realize that they are wrong that the real fun begins.

Any organization or “training” amplifies existing traits.

And power.

 

[AeronautIR]

I always recommend to anyone on any side of any argument - and not directed to you but at large- before you get into presenting opinions or arguments, please take time to read

The impact this book has had on both my professional and even personal relationships is immense but also my learning.

Sure I will though my surprise regarding the arguments here stemmed from my expectations about the forum. As you rightly pointed out, nobody can know everything and only fools make such claims, irrespective of age.
So, the easiest way to learn is to only tell others about things you know, and listen to all that you don't know.

 

[arsalan345]

It will work subsonics will punch through the Indian AD mark my words

I am not sure. Their interception rate was better than us. They have new interceptors and they are making more and more sams. It's hard to penetrate. I think this system is just show off. It might not work in war like situation.

 

[arsalan345]

Ok. Let's hear it from you. If it wasn't scalp, what was it ?
Seriously.

Read my point. Try to understand. Looks like you have comprehension issues.

 

[Starlord]

Coming back to topic, wonder if the upcoming J-10CE sq can be converted into a dedicated SEAD/DEAD? with Taimoor and other stand-off weapons which we can not use on JF bhai. I mean Mirages are older than Qaim Ali Shah and also highest crash rate in PAF (I think) so they should be on their way to retire right?

on lighter note, why Taimoor is so round on the top ? shouldn't it be pointy? hopefully that won't get me thread banned.

 

[RandomThoughts7]

I am not sure. Their interception rate was better than us. They have new interceptors and they are making more and more sams. It's hard to penetrate. I think this system is just show off. It might not work in war like situation.

Hi, I wanted to politely ask where you got this information? We honestly do not know whose interception rate was better.

Yes, some Brahmos missiles got throught, but many were intercepted. But as the IAF ACM Bharti said when asked about planes being shot down, "losses happen in combat". Lol!

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I also spoke to a a JF-17 pilot at RIAT 2025. He said the PAF lobbed a "whole bunch of munitions" into India and hit C2 nodes (command and control). The PAF is just being silent about what was launched.

Nevertheless, there is always room for improvement and both sides will be making the necessary adjustments.

 

[JamD]

Sorry for being the leader of thread jumps lol

@JamD had a write up somewhere on this but, Turbojets are wildly inefficient at low altitudes. Our cruise missiles likely rely on turbojet engines, not great ones either. Ill leave this question to him to answer because my knowledge on this is not as in depth as his.

On the second half of the question, we can launch them wherever- hence why we can do surface launches, but they wont stay that low, particularly to extend their reach to their max ranges. You will find them struggling with their efficiency due to a mix of factors, drag, thermals, engine performance, but theres also another reason why we may not be able to have super low flying cruise missiles- and thats the guidance stack (something which Taimoor IR could fix)- but again, this is a question for @JamD

@Tariq Habib Afridi
I had AI make this plot so take it with a pinch of salt

Key observations:
1. Adding bypass of just 1 to 1 (like tomahawk cm) increases range for same fuel by a lot. So turbojets are just worse than turbofans.
2. For 600km high altitude range turbojet you lose 80 km range flying at sea level.

This is underestimating the loss in range in 2 based on my experience with turbojet UAVs at sea level and altitude. It is using very simplified models.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a propulsion engineer - this is just based on undergrad knowledge and industry experience.

 

[krash]

Their interception rate was better than us.

Was it? Please share the rates with the types from both sides.

 

[safriz]

Was it? Please share the rates with the types from both sides.

The guy has been making unsubstantiated claims for Indians, one after another.
He stopped making sense and I put him in my ignore list. I recommend you do the same .

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

Sorry for being the leader of thread jumps lol

@Tariq Habib Afridi
I had AI make this plot so take it with a pinch of salt
View attachment 170406
Key observations:
1. Adding bypass of just 1 to 1 (like tomahawk cm) increases range for same fuel by a lot. So turbojets are just worse than turbofans.
2. For 600km high altitude range turbojet you lose 80 km range flying at sea level.

This is underestimating the loss in range in 2 based on my experience with turbojet UAVs at sea level and altitude. It is using very simplified models.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a propulsion engineer - this is just based on undergrad knowledge and industry experience.

Thank You for your time and response. I think Taimoor has enough range and if we loose some range and can launched with safety for both launching aircraft and missile detection, it is still a win for us.

When @Ak01 and many other knowledgeable fellow here was saying that subsonic has his own advantages, at that time the advantage that came to my mind was that it is slow and hence it can maneuver more than supersonic missiles but that was not the only advantage it has over supersonic rather it has other advantages as well like it if terrain mapping is done right it can penetrate in most layered air defence too. That is why USA still has subsonic cruise missile with better intellegence and terrain mapping it can hit any target accurately. Thanks for your time again. and apology if i have stated something wrong above from my weak understanding.

 

[JamD]

Thank You for your time and response. I think Taimoor has enough range and if we loose some range and can launched with safety for both launching aircraft and missile detection, it is still a win for us.

When @Ak01 and many other knowledgeable fellow here was saying that subsonic has his own advantages, at that time the advantage that came to my mind was that it is slow and hence it can maneuver more than supersonic missiles but that was not the only advantage it has over supersonic rather it has other advantages as well like it if terrain mapping is done right it can penetrate in most layered air defence too. That is why USA still has subsonic cruise missile with better intellegence and terrain mapping it can hit any target accurately. Thanks for your time again. and apology if i have stated something wrong above from my weak understanding.

No need to apologize. I enjoy these discussions very much! Yes, the main advantage is the ability to plan and fly a route like an aircraft while flying close to the ground to avoid long range radars. However, once the cruise missile gets close enough, it will get detected. For example, at an airbase there has to be pretty flat terrain all around. You can only hide below the horizon. And there are radars that are mounted at some height to expand this horizon. So for the end game, it is tricky for subsonic cruise missiles. This is a good 30 seconds of warning for the defender. I suppose EW and stealth must be used here. I would imagine it would be relatively easy to make a cruise missile have low RCS from only the front aspect for a frequency you know (of the targeting radar). I'm only speculating.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

No need to apologize. I enjoy these discussions very much! Yes, the main advantage is the ability to plan and fly a route like an aircraft while flying close to the ground to avoid long range radars. However, once the cruise missile gets close enough, it will get detected. For example, at an airbase there has to be pretty flat terrain all around. You can only hide below the horizon. And there are radars that are mounted at some height to expand this horizon. So for the end game, it is tricky for subsonic cruise missiles. This is a good 30 seconds of warning for the defender. I suppose EW and stealth must be used here. I would imagine it would be relatively easy to make a cruise missile have low RCS from only the front aspect for a frequency you know (of the targeting radar). I'm only speculating.

Also if we can increase the speed at lets say around 50km with the target? that can also reduce the 30 seconds time to lets say double the speed then 15 second? now i dont know any missile is capable of anything like that. ofcourse EW and stealth is good but if it makes it expensive we can have these solution as well if it is cheaper than EW and stealth?