PAF F-16 | Discussions

[Oscar]

Thats harsh. List of employees isn't top secret. Its one of thse things which is only technically classified.
And we have made a whole nuclear program and a missile one desoite massive and sabotage espionage efforts from west and east. CIA, MOSSAS, RAW, KGB and even fucking KHAD was trying to sabotage it at one point.
Like we had a laser enrichment program for 42 years before it was revealed in 2022. No one knew.
And smartphons are pardoxically easier to secure against then usbs. You can jam signals inside sensitive areas, white noise in background can mess with recording and you simply ask people to keep it outskde sensitive rooms before entering. USB are dangerous as ****.

It was meant to be harsh - because that also led to some harsh and damaging aspects where instead of addressing issues the whole house burnt out and luddite ideals adopted because those in charge didn’t understand concepts and their fears kicked in.

To not derail the thread further - until you have cultural fixed to have the right people in charge(which means pay them what they are worth and secure their lifestyle and get commitments from them to maintain and maintain your own to them) and then even in security listen to experts and trust them instead of trying to overrule them because your “gut instinct” due to your unrelated background and insecurities to protect yourself came in.

This is a Fauji problem that goes across countries because Ive seen some of it filter into US forces too until recently and its still a battle between the “military” mind and the less constrained but riskier civilian one - each have their respective advantages and disadvantages when working for the common defense needs.

 

[Bratva]

Thats harsh. List of employees isn't top secret. Its one of thse things which is only technically classified.
And we have made a whole nuclear program and a missile one desoite massive and sabotage espionage efforts from west and east. CIA, MOSSAS, RAW, KGB and even fucking KHAD was trying to sabotage it at one point.
Like we had a laser enrichment program for 42 years before it was revealed in 2022. No one knew.
And smartphons are pardoxically easier to secure against then usbs. You can jam signals inside sensitive areas, white noise in background can mess with recording and you simply ask people to keep it outskde sensitive rooms before entering. USB are dangerous as ****.

There is a leaked database of NADRA containing millions of records available on Dark WEB. I take one CNIC of each NESCOM, PAEC and KRL Grade-19 and 20 scientist/engineer/Principal researcher, input it in the leaked NADRA DB. It gives me their house address and lot of other details. Now I know where to go and do the "needful"

The magnetic bomb that attaches with car and kills people is already happening in Baluchistan. Major of MI killed last year when he was returning from graveyard, a bike rider attached the bomb with his car and sped away and CCTV video of entire incident is on youtube/live leaks

TTP kidnapped 10-20 employees of PAEC last year in Dera ismail khan. It is already in news

Brigadier Zahoor of ISI was killed when bike riders came on bikes , entered the private event he was attending and killed him point blank. Video is on Youtube/Liveleaks

RAW agents assassinating many people in Karachi and Lahore. Just last week, LET leader escaped assassination attempt.

We are just one bad day away from being on the wrong of side of America and they'll give go ahead to india/israel to start assassinating our Nuclear/Missile program engineers and scientists. Right now they just sanctioning the hell out of those organisations. Next step would be to assassinate.

India/BLA/TTP has already perfected the art of assassinations. It is a matter of when not if. So don't mind me when I say your argument is childish that the CNIC/NAME leak is superficial.

What worked in 80's wont work now. You didnt had RAW/BLA/TTP assassinating high level officials with impunity back then.

 

[Ibbi32]

imagine our own wild weasel squadrons

For that you need more dedicated training for ground attack role. Aiui there are only a couple of squadrons that train for specialized A2g missions. Considering that the paf big advantage over iaf is training we need our own specialized munitions and squadrons for that role

 

[Ibbi32]

The fall needs to be studied. Fr

Also on topic of wild Weasel squadrons. If Vipers don't come to fruition, JF-17s could be used for such a role. View attachment 195483
This image of a Jeff is an example. 2x CM-400, 2x SD-10. Would need a targeting pod or an EW pod but it's pretty much there

Theres a difference between a SEAD/DEAD mission and dedicated wild weasel squadron/aircraft. Frankly i dont think jf-17 is very suitable for the role

 

[rafale]

There is a leaked database of NADRA containing millions of records available on Dark WEB. I took one CNIC of each NESCOM, PAEC and KRL Grade-19 and 20 scientist/engineer/Principal researcher, input it in the leaked NADRA DB. It gives me their house address and lot of other details. Now I know where to go and do the "needful"

The magnetic bomb that attaches with car and kills people is already happening in Baluchistan. Major of MI killed last year when he was returning from graveyard, a bike rider attached the bomb with his car and sped away and CCTV video of entire incident is on youtube/live leaks

TTP kidnapped 10-20 employees of PAEC last year in Dera ismail khan. It is already in news

Brigadier Zahoor of ISI was killed when bike riders came on bikes , entered the private event he was attending and killed him point blank. Video is on Youtube/Liveleaks

RAW agents assassinating many people in Karachi and Lahore. Just last week, LET leader escaped assassination attempt.

We are just one bad day away from being on the wrong of side of America and they'll give go ahead to india/israel to start assassinating our Nuclear/Missile program engineers and scientists. Right now they just sanctioning the hell out of those organisations. Next step would be to assassinate.

India/BLA/TTP has already perfected the art of assassinations. It is a matter of when not if. So don't mind me when I say your argument is childish that the CNIC/NAME leak is superficial.

What worked in 80's wont work now. You didnt had RAW/BLA/TTP assassinating high level officials with impunity back then.

I have no reason to believe what you are saying is false or wrong, and i agree with your points that at times the security apparatus has been just sad and poor.

All of the examples you gave are of the nature where simple incompetence will suffice.

PAEC has hundreds and thousands of employees working in both civilian and atomic program and many do dual roles, but 99% of the time they remain safe.

the problem lies the in the very inherent human nature to be selfish at times and at times being pressed and pressured by the society to do the wrong the stuff.

Many examples from Soviet Union, USA, India all around etc. I mean, the guy who gave up B-2 bomber secrets literally did it for peanuts considering the damage he was about the cause. Indian personnel giving up details for some nudes. I mean, it is just human nature that we fail.

Pakistan never threatened anyone with the nuclear bomb. Iranians being the stupid they are blatantly announced annihilation of Israel. Pakistan always advertised its nukes against India. Yes sure India would want to take it out, but if it was that simple for Israel or India, India would be a waste land. You really have to be stupid to do that. But yes Indians are vile and can be expected to do it.

 

[rafale]

It was meant to be harsh - because that also led to some harsh and damaging aspects where instead of addressing issues the whole house burnt out and luddite ideals adopted because those in charge didn’t understand concepts and their fears kicked in.

To not derail the thread further - until you have cultural fixed to have the right people in charge(which means pay them what they are worth and secure their lifestyle and get commitments from them to maintain and maintain your own to them) and then even in security listen to expects and trust them instead of trying to overrule them because your “gut instinct” due to your unrelated background and insecurities to protect yourself came in.

This is a Fauji problem that goes across countries because Ive seen some of it filter into US forces too until recently and its still a battle between the “military” mind and the less constrained but riskier civilian one - each have their respective advantages and disadvantages when working for the common defense needs.

With due respect, even having the right people in charge or hiring specialists and paying them enough is not just enough sometimes.

I do OT cybersecurity for my power plant. It is a very niche cybersecurity field and no it is not like the IT cybersecurity that you can find specialists for. Because i need to do it for some very specific control systems and no one knows the plant configuration and requirement better than me.

The problem is, at the end of the day, i am the one being trained and made responsible for maintaining cybersecurity......USBs disabled, Network Intrusion Detection devices, Network analysis, end point security, DMZ established, SOPs established and practiced for full system backups........... i know the ins and outs but at the end of the day,.....i know how to disable it also.......so what's stopping me from turning evil?

We literally scope check the 'lone wolf' and 'disgruntled employee' as part of our HAZOP exercises. But.......This part you can't prepare against enough and can never be 100% foolproof.

People have caused a lot of more damage to organizations and nations for a lot less.

 

[Corax]

Pakistan never threatened anyone with the nuclear bomb. Iranians being the stupid they are blatantly announced annihilation of Israel. Pakistan always advertised its nukes against India. Yes sure India would want to take it out, but if it was that simple for Israel or India, India would be a waste land. You really have to be stupid to do that. But yes Indians are vile and can be expected to do it.

This point is so overlooked in the current conflict with Iran. In a way, they only have themselves to blame for what's happening to them. They've spent over 40 years non-stop making it their national goal to eliminate israel and the US, even to the point of making glossy TikTok like videos of their "secret" underground missile bases and weapons capability! I mean what nation would want to do that?! and now they are shocked that israel and the US is attacking them?!

With our nuke programme, everyone and their dog knows it's squarely targeted at india, especially since the 70s when india conducted its first nuke test. In addition, the US was always suspicious of india's strategic partnership with the USSR during the Cold War, despite india's much insistence on its "non-aligned" status, and therefore the US just "ignored" our nuke programme for most of the Cold War as it saw us as a useful bulwark against the USSR/india nexus in South Asia. Only towards the end of the Cold War did it impose military sanctions on us as it no longer saw a need for us I guess.

Furthermore, for the most part, our political and military establishment don't make it their strategic objective to "wipe israel off the map", despite what a few crazy mullahs may scream during jummah in mosques. I remember seeing a presentation by the then director of the SPD many years ago, maybe during Musharraf era, where he was describing the history of our nuke weapons programme and he repeatedly mentioned the range of Shaheen II as 2,750km, and when quizzed why he was so precise and why Pakistan would not develop any missile with a range greater than that, he simply said "we only need to reach as far as the Nicobar islands". This is one of the reasons why we've never really shown much in the way of ICBM capability, and as far as I know, only 1 public missile test of Ababeel, there's been nothing on that since then. If we had behaved like Iran, or even Iraq to some extent, the same thing would have happened to us that happened to them. Our sham of a "democracy" also helps to "soften" our image to an extent, compared with if we were an overtly authoritarian or theocratic state with a crazy genocidal leadership, like in Iraq or Iran.

 

[Sparten]

There is a leaked database of NADRA containing millions of records available on Dark WEB. I take one CNIC of each NESCOM, PAEC and KRL Grade-19 and 20 scientist/engineer/Principal researcher, input it in the leaked NADRA DB. It gives me their house address and lot of other details. Now I know where to go and do the "needful"

The magnetic bomb that attaches with car and kills people is already happening in Baluchistan. Major of MI killed last year when he was returning from graveyard, a bike rider attached the bomb with his car and sped away and CCTV video of entire incident is on youtube/live leaks

TTP kidnapped 10-20 employees of PAEC last year in Dera ismail khan. It is already in news

Brigadier Zahoor of ISI was killed when bike riders came on bikes , entered the private event he was attending and killed him point blank. Video is on Youtube/Liveleaks

RAW agents assassinating many people in Karachi and Lahore. Just last week, LET leader escaped assassination attempt.

We are just one bad day away from being on the wrong of side of America and they'll give go ahead to india/israel to start assassinating our Nuclear/Missile program engineers and scientists. Right now they just sanctioning the hell out of those organisations. Next step would be to assassinate.

India/BLA/TTP has already perfected the art of assassinations. It is a matter of when not if. So don't mind me when I say your argument is childish that the CNIC/NAME leak is superficial.

What worked in 80's wont work now. You didnt had RAW/BLA/TTP assassinating high level officials with impunity back then.

You are a think tank consultant apparently.
Firstly, none of those identities or addresses are secret. It was always open where these person lived or who they would work with.

If an officer is assigned to MI its not a secret they are in MI. If there work is suppsoed to be secret they are publically assigned elsewhere. Ditto ISI. PAEC is a gargantuan organization. They have multiple departmnets, medical, power, mining (where the men were from), agriculture, and yes weapons. 98% of people working in PAEC don't work in anything anymore or less secretive than PEL or DAWLENCE or any other industrial concern.

As a young lawyer I did anti-terror cases. I can assure you, when an identity is secret they don't appear in a NADRA database (or if they do, its under a pseudonym), they don't travel to home town for wedding and they certainly don't go to public mosques.

And the US and ISrael (and India and USSR) have activley tried to kill Pakistani sciebtists and technicians before. hasn't worked and won't work in thebpast since people who actually work in security are a lot more aware then dudes on te internet.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[Oscar]

With due respect, even having the right people in charge or hiring specialists and paying them enough is not just enough sometimes.

I do OT cybersecurity for my power plant. It is a very niche cybersecurity field and no it is not like the IT cybersecurity that you can find specialists for. Because i need to do it for some very specific control systems and no one knows the plant configuration and requirement better than me.

The problem is, at the end of the day, i am the one being trained and made responsible for maintaining cybersecurity......USBs disabled, Network Intrusion Detection devices, Network analysis, end point security, DMZ established, SOPs established and practiced for full system backups........... i know the ins and outs but at the end of the day,.....i know how to disable it also.......so what's stopping me from turning evil?

We literally scope check the 'lone wolf' and 'disgruntled employee' as part of our HAZOP exercises. But.......This part you can't prepare against enough and can never be 100% foolproof.

People have caused a lot of more damage to organizations and nations for a lot less.

Then you apply your zero trust principle on someone in your role as well. This is where you have regular polygraphs - managed devices - and so on. Yes, murphy’s law exists and is why you lost a F-16 because one person managed to bypass all protocols and install a mirage screw in there.

But similarly, you find holes and close them.

 

[Oscar]

.

And the US and ISrael (and India and USSR) have activley tried to kill Pakistani sciebtists and technicians before. hasn't worked and won't work in thebpast since people who actually work in security are a lot more aware then dudes on te internet.

I can assure you this has happened because I know the widow of one. As an attorney you should know identities and police reports can be fudged.

 

[The SC]

Strengthening Pakistan's Air Grip with US Support The United States gives the green light to a massive support package for Pakistan's F-16 fleet worth $488 million, including maintenance and radar upgrades (APG-66/68).The upgrade doesn't stop at maintenance; it extends to an additional program worth $686 million to equip the fleet with (Link-16) technologies, secure communications, and avionics development. A step that redraws the balance of air power in the region. Silent communications.. farther radars!

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[baqai]

folks ... having worked in info sec myself for few years during my career i am so intrigued to participate in the discussion but have to remind myself and to you great folks out here that this thread is about F-16s not on info sec, maybe we can have a separate thread on the topic

 

[Fatman17]

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[MandarKaBandar]

Fire , Flares and Thunder over Islamabad :