PAF F-16 | Discussions

[Oscar]

Oh here we go again! Debated so many times, think there are 3 main camps on PDF about this

Camp 1: Yes, lets get them! Vital not to be too dependant on China, and keeps us active with NATO partners
Camp: 2: Only if subsdized, and only on the Block 52s with another 18 new Block 72 purchased
Camp 3: Never, US cannot be trusted, future is J-10/J-35, save the money

Basically all posts will fall into one of these three camps

As soon I set up my Twitter account I will also post
"J-35" one day

"AH-1Z" the other day

"Hypersonics" some day

And one day "T-65B"

 

[Yasser76]

As soon I set up my Twitter account I will also post
"J-35" one day

"AH-1Z" the other day

"Hypersonics" some day

And one day "T-65B"

Thing is people reposting the crappy X accounts on here gives them wider coverage and a greater incentive to post crap

 

[rafale]

As soon I set up my Twitter account I will also post
"J-35" one day

"AH-1Z" the other day

"Hypersonics" some day

And one day "T-65B"

I think Pakistan is gonna push for F-16 Vs here, once this Iran US thing settles down beyond 60 days.

It is trump in power. You never know what he will sign off or how many funds he will give you. Could be anything. Trump is really the Trump card for Pakistan in Washington at the moment.

 

[Yasser76]

I think Pakistan is gonna push for F-16 Vs here, once this Iran US thing settles down beyond 60 days.

It is trump in power. You never know what he will sign off or how many funds he will give you. Could be anything. Trump is really the Trump card for Pakistan in Washington at the moment.

Maybe, but a small possibility, and I will only whisper it for fear of backlash, is that PAF themselves may no longer care for more new F-16s anymore....

 

[MirageV3ff]

How times have changed...

A few years back on the former [PDF] if a news like this used to come out - we'd exhaust 12-13 Pages in the 1st Hour of any rumor/news.

Truth be told, other than the fact Pakistan has never been so close to the US (in Decades) - this may be...perhaps...the last hail Mary...without a doubt for us.

I'm not looking to get into 'Can we trust the US', I think we all know the answer for that.

And I certainly don't want to get into it with the J-Fanboys.

Let's wait and see what lies at the end of the rainbow.

It's not just American distrust. We don't even bother to bargain or even put forward a major request anymore. Considering the softened relations we have right now with the Trump administration, we seriously could have at the very least asked for reissuing of the license for T-129s with American engines for as a matter of fact any other system that has American components.

 

[MirageV3ff]

As soon I set up my Twitter account I will also post
"J-35" one day

"AH-1Z" the other day

"Hypersonics" some day

And one day "T-65B"

Why stop at J-35 and AH-1Z?
I'll start an account and Larp about Fujian entering Pakistani service and we're getting that new VTOL fighter the Chinese are working on and call it a Pakistani programme

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

It's not just American distrust. We don't even bother to bargain or even put forward a major request anymore. Considering the softened relations we have right now with the Trump administration, we seriously could have at the very least asked for reissuing of the license for T-129s with American engines for as a matter of fact any other system that has American components.

Reminds me of President Zia-ul Haq's "peanuts" comment regarding the "rewards" offerred by the DC to counter the USSR in Afganistan. He wanted letting Pak develop nuclear capability in return! My gut feelings is the Pak Deep State this time wants the USA to let it have a greater security related role in the MENA and CA regions. Incidentally, both the USA and Russia are waning in military might projection....

 

[MirageV3ff]

Reminds me of President Zia-ul Haq's "peanuts" comment regarding the "rewards" offerred by the DC to counter the USSR in Afganistan. He wanted letting Pak develop nuclear capability in return! My gut feelings is the Pak Deep State this time wants the USA to let it have a greater security related role in the MENA and CA regions. Incidentally, both the USA and Russia are waning in military might projection....

That is fair but there's still the issue of having the excess of equipment necessary to provide necessary security related roles.

What exactly has been the benefit of the defence pact with the Saudis? Another loan? Still haven't seen any major weapons procurement drive or any other meaningful energy or economic incentive at scale. That refinery project? Sure but it was being negotiated years before the defence pact. Okay let's forget the economic and defence related incentives. What diplomatic incentive did we get? Mahrang Baloch gets arrested and the entire world media immediately up and arms against you, your adversaries pushing the narrative, was there ANY counter news to that or any diplomatic assistance? None whatsoever from what I've seen

We can't just be deploying squadrons and personnel to the Saudis at a moment's notice when our own external and internal security situation is a mess.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Max load out of:

J10CE: 6,000kg
JFT Block 3: 3,600Kg
Mirage 3/5: 3,600/4,000KG
F-16A/C: 7,000/7,700Kg

It is a no brainer. With the long stick being built around PL-15 equipped J-10CE and JFT Block 3 and impending retirement of numerous sub marks of Mirages, the interdiction role of F-16 stands out. If we can procure three to four air refuelers equipped with boom refueling setup that can tank up F-16's, and integration of non US munitions, and with enhanced Link-16 upgrades already in progress along with the capability to directly data link with Ereyes, it is a win-win for PAF.

The other advantage is the possibility of numerous Pratt and Whitney equipped F-16 being operated by various air forces that might soon be coming up for retirement::

Europe: Poland, Italy, Greece, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, and Portugal.
Asia-Pacific: South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Thailand, and Indonesia.
Middle East: Egypt, Turkey, Israel, Jordan, UAE, Bahrain, and Oman, Iraq.

The Ozgur upgrades is, altogether another track that can be taken but depends upon what can squeezed out of US.

The combo IMO is lethal; high weapons load, self-defense capability in the shape of AIM-120C or later versions if they can be sourced, ability to operate in proven PAF netcentric environment. But above all, many many hours of combat experience of operating this bird by the PAF.

My 2C worth

 

[Corax]

Max load out of:

J10CE: 6,000kg
JFT Block 3: 3,600Kg
Mirage 3/5: 3,600/4,000KG
F-16A/C: 7,000/7,700Kg

It is a no brainer. With the long stick being built around PL-15 equipped J-10CE and JFT Block 3 and impending retirement of numerous sub marks of Mirages, the interdiction role of F-16 stands out. If we can procure three to four air refuelers equipped with boom refueling setup that can tank up F-16's, and integration of non US munitions, and with enhanced Link-16 upgrades already in progress along with the capability to directly data link with Ereyes, it is a win-win for PAF.

The other advantage is the possibility of numerous Pratt and Whitney equipped F-16 being operated by various air forces that might soon be coming up for retirement::

Europe: Poland, Italy, Greece, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, and Portugal.
Asia-Pacific: South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Thailand, and Indonesia.
Middle East: Egypt, Turkey, Israel, Jordan, UAE, Bahrain, and Oman, Iraq.

The Ozgur upgrades is, altogether another track that can be taken but depends upon what can squeezed out of US.

The combo IMO is lethal; high weapons load, self-defense capability in the shape of AIM-120C or later versions if they can be sourced, ability to operate in proven PAF netcentric environment. But above all, many many hours of combat experience of operating this bird by the PAF.

My 2C worth

I think load of JF17 is 4,000kg, there was a video on YouTube many moons ago of Yang Wei, chief designer of JF17, describing key stats. The donkeys at PAC are notorious for getting key stats wrong on their website and even placards at air shows.

 

[Trailer23]

The donkeys at PAC are notorious for getting key stats wrong on their website and even placards at air shows.

Yeah, i'm the one who's been taking pics of all those goofups as far Dubai Air Show pavillions are concerened.

...and when I pointed them out, the response was, "Enyahhhh".

 

[Trailer23]

Maybe, but a small possibility, and I will only whisper it for fear of backlash, is that PAF themselves may no longer care for more new F-16s anymore....

I really, really, really wanna PM you - just to put a smile on your face.

 

[Oscar]

Maybe, but a small possibility, and I will only whisper it for fear of backlash, is that PAF themselves may no longer care for more new F-16s anymore....

Very possible - but also does not seem to connect well with what PAF has been asking for F-16 upkeep.
For e.g. the ADU-891 purchase which is confirmed from US sources is not only useful if you intend to purchase AIm-9X or Aim-120C-8s/D-3s. It does provide an upgrade to the C-5,

More importantly, if you tie this to Link-16 terminal upgrades you dont really need to even whisper to understand where this is going.

 

[Corax]

Very possible - but also does not seem to connect well with what PAF has been asking for F-16 upkeep.
For e.g. the ADU-891 purchase which is confirmed from US sources is not only useful if you intend to purchase AIm-9X or Aim-120C-8s/D-3s. It does provide an upgrade to the C-5,

More importantly, if you tie this to Link-16 terminal upgrades you dont really need to even whisper to understand where this is going.

True, but what the PAF wants in terms of wishlist from the US is subject to change on a dime in US politics, as history has shown.

 

[Asif]

it is debatable if we need block 72 or not as it wud take a minimum of 5 years for them to be flown here.
However, what is possible fairly early are the Iraqi Vipers. If only US would approve of it then it is more worthwhile to have them and our block 52s upgraded to viper standard.