PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

Ali Yusuf said:
Fellow members, I have a query. If the PL-15E BVR AAM that the PAF procured from China comes with a max range of 145 km and we do not have the fully potent PL-15 that the Chinese use domestically, then why did we purchase J-10C without its most potent air-to-air weapon but instead acquired the range compromised E version that is likely to end up second best against the IAF's Rafale + Meteor combo.

Also, why would China let one of its top-tier fighters end up 2nd best if a clash occurs with the Rafale + Meteor combo? This would greatly diminish any chance for J-10C to be a serious export candidate. Furthermore, China surely would not want its ally, i.e. Pakistan, to be at such a qualitative disadvantage.
Click to expand...
There are reasons why the big 3 (aim120, pl15, r77m) didn't go the ramjet path.
rocket AA is more lethal within a larger kill zone, while ramjet offers a longer strike (but the target fighter jet is more likely to maneuver away ).

quote:

Jennings said that he is currently unaware of plans to add ramjet propulsion to improve the range of the AIM-120D. "Raytheon, as well as some of the US government investigation agencies have continuously gone back and looked at how to optimise the range for AMRAAM, and there have been discussions of changing the propellants and doing other things in that area to increase the range. If we were to add a ramjet motor, would that solve all our problems? The answer is no."

Jennings continued, "There are a very small number of long-range scenarios where a ramjet-equipped AMRAAM might be an advantage, but those scenarios are fairly marginal, and once you get inside a certain range as you are approaching a target, a ramjet motor on an AMRAAM becomes not an advantage, but a disadvantage: because of the weight [of the missile] and the time to get it going - ramjet motors are initially slower than an AMRAAM motor - you are not going to necessarily get the missile to the target faster and make the kill in the amount of time that you need for it to happen."

Jennings said that performance enhancements to the AIM-120D will be delivered through a series of System Improvement Programs (SIPs). Since the AIM-120D was fielded in January 2015, the programme office conducted SIP-1 integrated testing with two live missile shots in March and May 2015. Operational testing for SIP-1 began in January 2016, and a SIP-2 upgrade is currently in planning. Jennings declined to expand on the specific nature of the enhancements provided under the SIP initiatives, noting, "The [SIP] programmes [are] designed to ensure that AIM-120D remains on the cutting edge. AMRAAM is a fully re-programmable weapon and a lot of what we can and will do to AMRAAM in the future will involve software updates. We are already looking at potential threats that will be on the scene in 2020-25 and beyond, and are now discussing SIP 3, SIP 4, and SIP 5 upgrades in terms of how can we design into the weapon those features that will optimise it to defeat those threats."

AIM-120 AMRAAM projects

Does anyone have an information of the Hughes Asam-1, an AMRAAM derivative that was offered for the UK's cancelled MSAM requirement. The Asam-1 featured an enlarged diameter solid rocket motor and reached the flight testing stage in 1992.
www.secretprojects.co.uk www.secretprojects.co.uk

I think China is confident in using J10c+PL15e to counter Rafale+Metero, however Metero does pose a greater threat to AWACS & Tanker due to its longer range.
 
sutton9999 said:
There are reasons why the big 3 (aim120, pl15, r77m) didn't go the ramjet path.
rocket AA is more lethal within a larger kill zone, while ramjet offers a longer strike (but the target fighter jet is more likely to maneuver away ).

quote:

Jennings said that he is currently unaware of plans to add ramjet propulsion to improve the range of the AIM-120D. "Raytheon, as well as some of the US government investigation agencies have continuously gone back and looked at how to optimise the range for AMRAAM, and there have been discussions of changing the propellants and doing other things in that area to increase the range. If we were to add a ramjet motor, would that solve all our problems? The answer is no."

Jennings continued, "There are a very small number of long-range scenarios where a ramjet-equipped AMRAAM might be an advantage, but those scenarios are fairly marginal, and once you get inside a certain range as you are approaching a target, a ramjet motor on an AMRAAM becomes not an advantage, but a disadvantage: because of the weight [of the missile] and the time to get it going - ramjet motors are initially slower than an AMRAAM motor - you are not going to necessarily get the missile to the target faster and make the kill in the amount of time that you need for it to happen."

Jennings said that performance enhancements to the AIM-120D will be delivered through a series of System Improvement Programs (SIPs). Since the AIM-120D was fielded in January 2015, the programme office conducted SIP-1 integrated testing with two live missile shots in March and May 2015. Operational testing for SIP-1 began in January 2016, and a SIP-2 upgrade is currently in planning. Jennings declined to expand on the specific nature of the enhancements provided under the SIP initiatives, noting, "The [SIP] programmes [are] designed to ensure that AIM-120D remains on the cutting edge. AMRAAM is a fully re-programmable weapon and a lot of what we can and will do to AMRAAM in the future will involve software updates. We are already looking at potential threats that will be on the scene in 2020-25 and beyond, and are now discussing SIP 3, SIP 4, and SIP 5 upgrades in terms of how can we design into the weapon those features that will optimise it to defeat those threats."

AIM-120 AMRAAM projects

Does anyone have an information of the Hughes Asam-1, an AMRAAM derivative that was offered for the UK's cancelled MSAM requirement. The Asam-1 featured an enlarged diameter solid rocket motor and reached the flight testing stage in 1992.
www.secretprojects.co.uk www.secretprojects.co.uk

I think China is confident in using J10c+PL15e to counter Rafale+Metero, however Metero does pose a greater threat to AWACS & Tanker due to its longer range.
Click to expand...
Thank you for such a detailed and informative response to my query.
 
These ranges that r being talked above...at this point in time r simply not "doable" for fighter size ac but more tailored for awacs size slow moving, less maneuverable targets.

To fire bvr at max ranges at other fighter ac presently is just break enemy ac formations n give the firing ac a better chance for a kill with the second shot when the ranges have decreased significantly.
 
sutton9999 said:
There are reasons why the big 3 (aim120, pl15, r77m) didn't go the ramjet path.
rocket AA is more lethal within a larger kill zone, while ramjet offers a longer strike (but the target fighter jet is more likely to maneuver away ).

quote:

Jennings said that he is currently unaware of plans to add ramjet propulsion to improve the range of the AIM-120D. "Raytheon, as well as some of the US government investigation agencies have continuously gone back and looked at how to optimise the range for AMRAAM, and there have been discussions of changing the propellants and doing other things in that area to increase the range. If we were to add a ramjet motor, would that solve all our problems? The answer is no."

Jennings continued, "There are a very small number of long-range scenarios where a ramjet-equipped AMRAAM might be an advantage, but those scenarios are fairly marginal, and once you get inside a certain range as you are approaching a target, a ramjet motor on an AMRAAM becomes not an advantage, but a disadvantage: because of the weight [of the missile] and the time to get it going - ramjet motors are initially slower than an AMRAAM motor - you are not going to necessarily get the missile to the target faster and make the kill in the amount of time that you need for it to happen."

Jennings said that performance enhancements to the AIM-120D will be delivered through a series of System Improvement Programs (SIPs). Since the AIM-120D was fielded in January 2015, the programme office conducted SIP-1 integrated testing with two live missile shots in March and May 2015. Operational testing for SIP-1 began in January 2016, and a SIP-2 upgrade is currently in planning. Jennings declined to expand on the specific nature of the enhancements provided under the SIP initiatives, noting, "The [SIP] programmes [are] designed to ensure that AIM-120D remains on the cutting edge. AMRAAM is a fully re-programmable weapon and a lot of what we can and will do to AMRAAM in the future will involve software updates. We are already looking at potential threats that will be on the scene in 2020-25 and beyond, and are now discussing SIP 3, SIP 4, and SIP 5 upgrades in terms of how can we design into the weapon those features that will optimise it to defeat those threats."

AIM-120 AMRAAM projects

Does anyone have an information of the Hughes Asam-1, an AMRAAM derivative that was offered for the UK's cancelled MSAM requirement. The Asam-1 featured an enlarged diameter solid rocket motor and reached the flight testing stage in 1992.
www.secretprojects.co.uk www.secretprojects.co.uk

I think China is confident in using J10c+PL15e to counter Rafale+Metero, however Metero does pose a greater threat to AWACS & Tanker due to its longer range.
Click to expand...
Very long range aam just seen recently with china j16/ pl xx and usa f18/aim 174 clearly shows noone is interested in ramjet
 
Michael said:
It's the first batch of J10CEs, which the Chinese media reported as 20 units. I'm not sure of the situation. It's also possible that the 36 aircraft you mentioned are split into two contracts, or it could be a misdescription.
Do you know the details of this contract for 36 planes? Main specific list and price
Click to expand...

I always confronted this rumor of 36 aircrafts shared and propagated by fan boys. They just assumed it themselves because they like to exaggerate everything. The biggest culprit are teenager boys running twitter accounts of PSF or something.

No one in PAF or in govt ever mentioned that contract was for 36 aircrafts.

There was no contract for 36 (Imaginary number) aircrafts. Its more than clear that contract was for 20 units. That order is already complete.
 
Awwad said:
I always confronted this rumor of 36 aircrafts shared and propagated by fan boys. They just assumed it themselves because they like to exaggerate everything. The biggest culprit are teenager boys running twitter accounts of PSF or something.

No one in PAF or in govt ever mentioned that contract was for 36 aircrafts.

There was no contract for 36 (Imaginary number) aircrafts. Its more than clear that contract was for 20 units. That order is already complete.
Click to expand...
What you’ve said does make sense & all the exaggeration and rubbish (not exclusive to this topic)on social media drives me nuts too but a few questions remain. For one while there are no squadron markings on PAF J-10’s (unlike all their other fighters🤔) they appear to be using 2 distinct camo schemes. This would strongly suggest 2 squadrons? If so, 10 aircraft per squadron would not be enough?
 
Awwad said:
I always confronted this rumor of 36 aircrafts shared and propagated by fan boys. They just assumed it themselves because they like to exaggerate everything. The biggest culprit are teenager boys running twitter accounts of PSF or something.

No one in PAF or in govt ever mentioned that contract was for 36 aircrafts.

There was no contract for 36 (Imaginary number) aircrafts. Its more than clear that contract was for 20 units. That order is already complete.
Click to expand...
Hi,

36 aircraft---that was the deal---.& ten some more---that would depend on further procurement of Rafale by our neighbor---.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)

Pakistan Defence Latest

Country Watch Latest

Latest Posts

Share this page

Back
Top