PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[Vapnope]

Although I predicted from the outset that "many Pakistanis would over-interpret this report" and issued a warning, you continued with this behavior...

This report is nothing more than a child's toy.

I am not sure which part you mean. I posted it because it says 16 more are on order and thats about it.

 

[Michael]

I am not sure which part you mean. I posted it because it says 16 more are on order and thats about it.

The Pentagon's report on China's military capabilities this year is about as credible as content on Twitter.

As for the so-called 16 J-10CE aircraft, there has already been plenty of discussion on this forum.

What's certain is that the Pentagon's report is less reliable than the discussions in this thread. Therefore, there's no need for you to cite their report.

But I'm still certain that many more people will continue to cite this report.

 

[Vapnope]

The Pentagon's report on China's military capabilities this year is about as credible as content on Twitter.

As for the so-called 16 J-10CE aircraft, there has already been plenty of discussion on this forum.

What's certain is that the Pentagon's report is less reliable than the discussions in this thread. Therefore, there's no need for you to cite their report.

But I'm still certain that many more people will continue to cite this report.

I didnt post it for chinese military capabilities, i posted it because this is the only source where 16 more on order was mentioned.

 

[Michael]

I didnt post it for chinese military capabilities, i posted it because this is the only source where 16 more on order was mentioned.

What are you trying to say?

There's been a lot of discussion in this thread about whether the PAF ordered 20 or 36 J-10CE aircraft. This Pentagon report simply uses online rumors; it doesn't provide any basis or credible evidence.

In fact, most of the content in this report comes from the internet. It has no credibility whatsoever, including the additional 16 J-10CE fighter jets you mentioned.

 

[Vapnope]

What are you trying to say?

There's been a lot of discussion in this thread about whether the PAF ordered 20 or 36 J-10CE aircraft. This Pentagon report simply uses online rumors; it doesn't provide any basis or credible evidence.

In fact, most of the content in this report comes from the internet. It has no credibility whatsoever, including the additional 16 J-10CE fighter jets you mentioned.

Are you implying that there are no more J10cs on order for Pakistan?

We know for a fact that 25 were ordered with an option to buy another 11. Source below

Minister: Pakistan Bought Chinese J-10 Jets To Counter India’s Rafales

On Dec. 29, Pakistani Interior Minister Sheikh Rasheed Ahmed announced the Pakistan Air Force would unveil 25 newly imported “JS-10” jet fighters from China for the Republic Day parade on March 23. These jets, he added, would counter the 36 Dassault Rafale fighters India was receiving from France.

www.forbes.com

 

[Michael]

Are you implying that there are no more J10cs on order for Pakistan?

We know for a fact that 25 were ordered with an option to buy another 11. Source below

Minister: Pakistan Bought Chinese J-10 Jets To Counter India’s Rafales

On Dec. 29, Pakistani Interior Minister Sheikh Rasheed Ahmed announced the Pakistan Air Force would unveil 25 newly imported “JS-10” jet fighters from China for the Republic Day parade on March 23. These jets, he added, would counter the 36 Dassault Rafale fighters India was receiving from France.

www.forbes.com

How did you conclude that I was implying something?

1. So far, the PAF (Pakistan Air Force) has only purchased 20 J-10CE aircraft. Whether they will place additional orders remains unknown.

2. What I want to tell you is that this Pentagon report is not worth discussing. I wasn't implying anything. If you use this Pentagon report to discuss the PAF's 36 J-10CE fighter jets, it's clearly a completely meaningless exercise.

 

[AeronautIR]

Indian soliders died in 2001 due to accidents not fighting. There was no exchang of fire during that stand-off. Yes, India learned from its mistake but as far as employement of aerial power is concerned, Indians had done that too in Kargil in 1999. 2001 stand-off was land forces mobalization and thankfully it didn't escalated because PAF was on its weakest during those time due to Pressler Amendments and its own inability ot acquire Mirage-2000s during 1990s.

It is not about lobbing few bombs. It is about enemy hitting your airbases with pinpoint accuracy fully knowing that you don't have any system capable of doing the same to his infrastructure. The establishment of Rocket Force Command itself is a clear testimony of this fact. We were not ready to compete India in SOW capability and we have still a lots of ground to cover in that domain. (And since day 1 this has been the core argument from myside).

Do you know what's the problematic part of this concept of deterrence is? It simply means India will always have the advantage of element of surprise and Pakistan will always be on reactionary side. This time we had Pl-15 advantage in the air next time it will not be there. Plus see what happened once IAF realized their initial miscalculation about range of PL-15. They played on their strength from 8 May onwards. Pakistan would have been in far better position in term of establishing deterrence if offramp accepted on the morning of 7th May after destroying IAF's myth and confidence both. What we did? We allowed enemy to rethink, evaluate, and re-launch! and result is now we are debating why there is no proof of any Pakistani strike in India. Why? Because like IAF, PAF (or Pakistan Army) miscalculated ... Not only our own weapons strength but also Indian integrated layered AD systems. Despite taking beating in the air, IAF was able to inflict damages to PAF infrastrcture that it couldn't in full blown wars of 65 and 71 despite having much greater numerical superiority. Why? Because during peace time, India made clear headed aggressive moves establishing BrahMos JV with Russia. Acquiring SCALP, HAMMER type weapons to deter H2/H4 munitions from PAF side. After ROSE project completion in early 2000's there have been no concentrated efforts on Pakistani side to negate IAF the advantage of all above mentioned systems which it acquired during last 2 decades and then came 9th May and we witnessed a mashroom of fireball on Nur Khan base. PAF focused more on getting air surpriroty via establishing BVR dominance and Netcentric Multi Domain ops which itself is remarkable but it left a gap. The real purpose of any air force is NOT defending skies (Air power theory) but to decimate enemy forces on ground. Air combat is a byproduct of this primary goal. PAF will have to work hard on negating IAF's advantage through qualitatively better SOW weapons and you will see complete deterrence in play as I mentioned above. Deterrence failed in 2025 after hitting IAF in 2019 because we couldn't do strategic communication right via establishing and showcasing our prowess in SOW/Interdiction missions. This failure of deterrence will continue as long as we allow that gap to remain there!!

Man, shorter and to the point posts please.
I already said Indian soldiers died during mobilization. Now mainly airpower is used in 2019 and 2025.
You missed my point about economy. The deterence you want is not possible till we match them in resources.
I disagree that Indians hit our bases knowing we can't hit them. If you don't believe CAS, DCAS(O), ACM (R) Sohail Aman etc., upto you. We dealt more damage to them and I am not debating satellite photos again.
This time's PL-15 advantage was not a fluke. A whole directorate is there for such planning. They increased capability since 2019 by inductions and Multi-Domain Operations, so I trust they are already preparing for future. We will see in next conflict I guess.
And I won't even reply to those sweeping statements about Indians damaging us more than in previous wars. It is simply not true.

 

[AeronautIR]

How did you conclude that I was implying something?

1. So far, the PAF (Pakistan Air Force) has only purchased 20 J-10CE aircraft. Whether they will place additional orders remains unknown.

2. What I want to tell you is that this Pentagon report is not worth discussing. I wasn't implying anything. If you use this Pentagon report to discuss the PAF's 36 J-10CE fighter jets, it's clearly a completely meaningless exercise.

The 36 order will be completed in 2026-27 hopefully.

 

[Michael]

The 36 order will be completed in 2026-27 hopefully.

We have indeed seen many rumors about 36 J-10CE aircraft. However, we haven't seen any conclusive evidence. The previously leaked contract for the PAF's purchase of J-10CE fighter jets only showed 20 J-10CE aircraft.

If the remaining 16 J-10CE aircraft were ordered along with the first batch, then, given CAC's production capacity, they should have been delivered a long time ago.

Based on the timeline, CAC should have transferred its production line to Guizhou only after completing the production of the 20 J-10CE fighter jets for the PAF. Therefore, they should not have received any purchase intentions before transferring the production line.

Objectively speaking, the PAF does need to purchase some more J-10CE fighter jets.
=======================================
PLAAF's organizational structure:

Pure 5th-Gen fighter brigade: 24-36 fighter jets
Pure 4-4.5th-Gen fighter brigade: 40-48 fighter jets
Mixed fighter brigade: around 40 fighter jets

Each fighter brigade is equipped with a complete brigade-level tactical command center, including comprehensive systems for operations, intelligence, and communications. This command center is also one of the core nodes of the military's complete command system. Units below the brigade level do not have separate tactical command centers.

The PAF should also have a complete J-10CE fighter brigade unit. ------ I am not familiar with the PAF's organizational structure, so this is just a general estimate.

 

[AeronautIR]

We have indeed seen many rumors about 36 J-10CE aircraft. However, we haven't seen any conclusive evidence. The previously leaked contract for the PAF's purchase of J-10CE fighter jets only showed 20 J-10CE aircraft.

If the remaining 16 J-10CE aircraft were ordered along with the first batch, then, given CAC's production capacity, they should have been delivered a long time ago.

Based on the timeline, CAC should have transferred its production line to Guizhou only after completing the production of the 20 J-10CE fighter jets for the PAF. Therefore, they should not have received any purchase intentions before transferring the production line.

Objectively speaking, the PAF does need to purchase some more J-10CE fighter jets.
=======================================
PLAAF's organizational structure:

Pure 5th-Gen fighter brigade: 24-36 fighter jets
Pure 4-4.5th-Gen fighter brigade: 40-48 fighter jets
Mixed fighter brigade: around 40 fighter jets

Each fighter brigade is equipped with a complete brigade-level tactical command center, including comprehensive systems for operations, intelligence, and communications. This command center is also one of the core nodes of the military's complete command system. Units below the brigade level do not have separate tactical command centers.

The PAF should also have a complete J-10CE fighter brigade unit. ------ I am not familiar with the PAF's organizational structure, so this is just a general estimate.

I was told by PAF senior officials the plan to acquire 2 sqn each of J-10C and J-35. The probable numbers are 40 J-10C and 36 J-35.
I think this is a new deal with 4 additional J-10C. But you are right about no evidence yet. So let's see about the deliveries in 2026.

 

[maxpane]

I was told by PAF senior officials the plan to acquire 2 sqn each of J-10C and J-35. The probable numbers are 40 J-10C and 36 J-35.
I think this is a new deal with 4 additional J-10C. But you are right about no evidence yet. So let's see about the deliveries in 2026.

so 2026-2027 or 2030-2032

 

[falcon34]

And we didn't use any of our cruise missiles. Actually, we are better off in this sense because we still have more cards than them to play in future conflicts.

What did we hit 34 targets with than?.
Or the number is for combined strikes by PA and PAF?.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

What did we hit 34 targets with than?.
Or the number is for combined strikes by PA and PAF?.

And more importantly what weapons were used by PAF? Cm400akg used only for s400, other than that which sow?

 

[AeronautIR]

so 2026-2027 or 2030-2032

It is for J-10, don't know about J-35. Though it will be completed by 2030 in my opinion.