PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[Awwad]

View attachment 78951

AVIC is displaying this tripple bomb launcher. However, PAF isn't likely to use it in such a role. Such role is already employed by JF-17s / F-16s and UCAVs

PAF J-10Cs will most likely keep using the current role of air supremacy with all air to air missiles. I don't see a reason that PAF will use its most premier aircraft with a very long range stick going to use these free fall GPBs or LGBs. However, once there are enough squadrons then stand-off weapons (200 Km+ like ALCMs) can be added for strike missions.

 

[alphapak]

Just for reference of western fighters, Kuwait bought 28 Typhoons for 8.7 Billion dollars, India bought 36 Rafales for 9 billion dollars. I think 2 squadrons of J-35s should be around 8 to 10 billion dollars at minimum.

There are other ways to pay, plus their are interests of Countries that come into
play as well. Do the Israeli's pay for their military equipment?

 

[Maarkhoor]

A good news one more squadron about to join PAF.

@MastanKhan

 

[Analyst]

Nice shot of the J-10C in camo

 

[Awwad]

J-10s were not meant to replace F-16s, they were to replace mirages in strike role and to counter Rafale procurement.

I didn't said they were meant to replace F-16s. Yes these were to counter Rafales and restore the balance that was disturbed by Meteors+Rafales.

If we have all the money of the world, We all can deduce easily that let's replace Mirages with J-10Cs and F-16s with J-35s but that's not the case. PAF is still flying 60 year old Mirages for a reason that is lack of funds. Even to produce JF-17 there's a lot of cost that is attached. So financials are always to be understood. Your procurement plans evolve based on the economic output. So, if the economy do not allow all F-16s to be replaced by J-35s then you will have to replace those with the mix of J-10Cs & J-35s.

BTW, who has made a hard & fast rule that only mirage is replaceable by J-10C and F-16 by J-35 ??, There's nothing such thing. It all depends upon circumstances + economy. In the 90's, PAF was desperately looking to buy aircraft, sometimes there used to news in newspapaer for mirage 2000, sometimes for Saab, sometimes even SU-27 before JF-17 was materialized. So at times, you have to be driven by the conditions & circumstances and not by the ideal fit that you have had envisioned. Even 2 squadrons of J-35 and 4 to 5 squadrons of J-10Cs in the entire 2030s will make PAF a very impressive and powerful fleet. We don't have to crave for unrealistic goals. The 90 figure thing for J-35 is achieveable by 2050 not anytime sooner.

 

[Awwad]

There are other ways to pay, plus their are interests of Countries that come into
play as well. Do the Israeli's pay for their military equipment?

Whatever China's interest is. It will never give a discount. Yes China give option to pay in installments or loans but Pakistan will have to pay every penny.

US gives military aid to Israel. That is not the case with China - Pakistan. Pakistan is solely a customer.

Plus you tell me why PAF is still flying the second generation F-7PGs & so many mirages (which are 60 years old) ?? The reason is obvious that we don't have enough funds to quickly replace those. I mean we could have easily replaced the last squadron of F-7 and few squadrons of F-7PGs with JF-17 block IIIs but you know that even JF-17 block III costs a lot. So, people here are talking about 5th gen fighters in great numbers (upto 5 squadrons) that is simply not possible in 10 years timeframe. However, by 2050 yes quite possible by then.

 

[alphapak]

Whatever China's interest is. It will never give a discount. Yes China give option to pay in installments or loans but Pakistan will have to pay every penny.

There are other ways to pay, I'm not going to say anything else.

You know better than me how the Generals are like in Pakistan.

 

[MastanKhan]

A good news one more squadron about to join PAF.

@MastanKhan

Hi,

See what you have done----now someone would want a copy of the contract---.

 

[MastanKhan]

A) There is no guarantee that PAF has purchased or operates these particular belly pylons.
B) with this belly pylon, the J10CE can in a clean config(ie air to air refuelling for CAPs) operate
- 2 x Sd-10s under belly( or Pl-15Es ).
- 2 x pl-15s on inner wing hard point.
- 4 x pl-15% on middle wing hard point.
- 2 x pl-10s on outermost wing hard point.

8 BVRs in full beast mode…(if all hardpoints are wired to the same capability of course, would be suprised if they were not, as it is just another terminal on the bus..).

Can the J10Ce operate a Spj on the chin hardpoint if it is using this underbelly dual rack? Would be cool to see the layout diagrams of the possible combinations!

( btw-we have not seen any dual racks on the inner wing hard points with BVR missiles is interesting/odd or I missed something? Probably not enough space/ clearance for it.).

Hi,

I like your enthusiaism---but the aircraft needs fuel tanks as well.

 

[MastanKhan]

J-10s were not meant to replace F-16s, they were to replace mirages in strike role and to counter Rafale procurement.

Hi,

As the F16's are going to be in service for awhile---I would say that the proper term would be---" Paf's J10CE are complimenting the F16's"---.

The strike role has been taken over by the JF17's---. The mirages will fly till they can fly no more---.

 

[Reichmarshal]

20+16 i always had that figure for two squadrons and possible 18 for another

54-55 was what i heard year ago when they were purchasing J10

90

 

[abcefg]

I didn't said they were meant to replace F-16s. Yes these were to counter Rafales and restore the balance that was disturbed by Meteors+Rafales.

If we have all the money of the world, We all can deduce easily that let's replace Mirages with J-10Cs and F-16s with J-35s but that's not the case. PAF is still flying 60 year old Mirages for a reason that is lack of funds. Even to produce JF-17 there's a lot of cost that is attached. So financials are always to be understood. Your procurement plans evolve based on the economic output. So, if the economy do not allow all F-16s to be replaced by J-35s then you will have to replace those with the mix of J-10Cs & J-35s.

BTW, who has made a hard & fast rule that only mirage is replaceable by J-10C and F-16 by J-35 ??, There's nothing such thing. It all depends upon circumstances + economy. In the 90's, PAF was desperately looking to buy aircraft, sometimes there used to news in newspapaer for mirage 2000, sometimes for Saab, sometimes even SU-27 before JF-17 was materialized. So at times, you have to be driven by the conditions & circumstances and not by the ideal fit that you have had envisioned. Even 2 squadrons of J-35 and 4 to 5 squadrons of J-10Cs in the entire 2030s will make PAF a very impressive and powerful fleet. We don't have to crave for unrealistic goals. The 90 figure thing for J-35 is achieveable by 2050 not anytime sooner.

Currently, the plan is to replace delta-winged Mirage with delta-winged J-10Cs, Western F-16s with Western KAANs, and J-7s (as well as A-5s) with JF-17s (except for the No. 8 Squadron, which performs maritime duties with M5s equipped with Exocets, was replaced with JF-17 that could carry CM-400AKGs).
Now KAANs development is being studied but not focused because the a/c meant to replace them is going to serve us well into late 2030s, with structural life and avionics upgrades that is.
Typically, PAF has (or wanted in case of F-16s) 5 or 6 forward combat squadrons of each A/C type, therefore technically I don't see J-35s joining PAF fleet by even 2028 it could be early 2030 for sure as J-10Cs would be filling in to replace Legacy Mirages by then with a total of 5 Squadrons, 1 of which has been already delivered and another one on the way and only then it would J-35s could be seen in PAFs colors and I could assure that a new squadron would be raised or another one name plated as J-35 is whole new ball game.

 

[Yasser76]

Currently, the plan is to replace delta-winged Mirage with delta-winged J-10Cs, Western F-16s with Western KAANs, and J-7s (as well as A-5s) with JF-17s (except for the No. 8 Squadron, which performs maritime duties with M5s equipped with Exocets, was replaced with JF-17 that could carry CM-400AKGs).
Now KAANs development is being studied but not focused because the a/c meant to replace them is going to serve us well into late 2030s, with structural life and avionics upgrades that is.
Typically, PAF has (or wanted in case of F-16s) 5 or 6 forward combat squadrons of each A/C type, therefore technically I don't see J-35s joining PAF fleet by even 2028 it could be early 2030 for sure as J-10Cs would be filling in to replace Legacy Mirages by then with a total of 5 Squadrons, 1 of which has been already delivered and another one on the way and only then it would J-35s could be seen in PAFs colors and I could assure that a new squadron would be raised or another one name plated as J-35 is whole new ball game.

I am not so sure, I think J-35 may come sooner, with this very high tech piece of kit I imagine China would have much input in delivery timelines. It maybe we asked for it as soon as possible or later on we may have to get in the line behind PLAAF and PLAN.

With each passing year F-16s are getting more obsolete without "V" upgrade and another structural upgrade.

Beauty of mirages is we can pretty much refrub and upgrade them ourselves and serve as good bomb trucks and RAAD missile carriers. Would not be surprised if we kept the attack ones on for as long as the F-16s, like the USAF is keeping the B-52 on longer then the B-1. Obviously in air superiority role mirages have had their day and J-10C is a beats here,

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

I would not be surprised if we stay at 36 aircraft following news of J-35. PAF simply cannot fund two major high end procurement projects at the same time, even with generous Chinese terms. I guess ultimately it depends on replacement strategy. If J-35 is a true F-16 replacement we will need minimum of 5 Sqds ( around 90 planes). So that is 36 J-10CEs and 90 J-35s to essentially replace some of the Mirage fleet and the F-16s.

PAF possible ending in 20235 like the below

2 J-10CE Sqds
5 J-35 Sqds
8 JF-17 Sqds

Above all frontline (not taking into account OCUs) that is 15 Sqds of very good AESA fighters.

Currently PAF has 5 F-16 sqds and 4 Mirage Sqds still operational and I imagine these will all be next in line for retirement over next 10 years. Maybe F-7PGs still retained for DACT/LIFT/Fighter Conversion

Look at the bigger picture. How would you know 150 J-10Cs and 75 J-31 Gyrfalcons stationed at various Pakistani air bases are all PAF aircraft and piloted by the PAF pilots?

Finance is not the issue when it comes to buying Chinese military hardware. It's only an issue when buying from the US.

 

[Yasser76]

Look at the bigger picture. How would you know 150 J-10Cs and 75 J-31 Gyrfalcons stationed at various Pakistani air bases are all PAF aircraft and piloted by the PAF pilots?

Finance is not the issue when it comes to buying Chinese military hardware. It's only an issue when buying from the US.

Very good point.