PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[wanglaokan]

Just admit it - these are the Elite PILOTs of the PAF that have made this possible. IT IS DUE TO PAF that J-10 has now finally got a brand name.Yes there is hardware and software. But all this is just Average without these pilots in them.
I can go as far as to say that even Chinese Pilots need to learn a lot from PAF strategies. Yes China has some very good toys - but their Pilots need a lot of real war training.

what if PAF flying Rafale and IAF flying J10c? can pilot skill make up for fighter performance disadvantage, I usually think of this. PAF has one of the best pilots team of the world, so it should fly the best platform, and CHINESE pilot is also top tier.
Chinese people are no war mongers, but we are born to fight. Every time Indian soldiers come to provoke, we beat the shit out of them.
and I don't think J10 will sell extremely well even it shoot down several rafales cause fighter business pertains to politics more than technics.
one thing for sure is J10ce get more priority in PAF than in PLAAf, cause we have different land mass and tactical focus.
J10c is just an air superior defensive fighter in PLAAf, we won't spend too much resource on it.
CAC had transfered the J10 production line to GAC, so that CAC can hundred percent dedicate producing J20.

 

[wanglaokan]

on the other hand, j35 is a offensive platform which can get in India and hunt without being detected. that's the real thing, and I think PAF is more ambitious than just to defend.
now India is stuck financing Rafale, it's a good chance for PAF to turn it around.

 

[Harbyharb]

Can china give a squadron of their oldest J10C to Pak?

If you are asking if Pakistan can make an emergency procurement to tackle potential escalation, I would say don’t bother. There isn’t time for the Chinese to produce J-10Cs on the spot unless they take them out of their current readiness roster (like the europeans did for the Ukrainians lmao), and there isn’t time to adapt Pakistani pilots and ground service crews to a new platform.

What China CAN do is what they’ve always done, mount up its own pressure on their boarders with India to deter escalation, or provide intelligence support to the PAF, like offering satellite images and plateau tracking radar intel about Indian movements. But so far the conflict have yet to be ugly enough for that to be necessary.

 

[Harbyharb]

on the other hand, j35 is a offensive platform which can get in India and hunt without being detected. that's the real thing, and I think PAF is more ambitious than just to defend.

Don’t get too excited. IIRC the J-10CPs that the PAF do get was offered at prices below the cost of production, and even then it’s paid in the form of zero interest loans. The transaction yielded no net economic benefit for China and was really a geopolitical balancing move.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I believe until India acquires tangible VLO capabilities, China would not consider delivering J-31s to the PAF. They may train some pilots ahead of time like they did for the J-10C just in case or do collaborative exercises for the PAF to be familiar with the characteristics of the airframe, but that’s about it

 

[liuzhengdong]

Just admit it - these are the Elite PILOTs of the PAF that have made this possible. IT IS DUE TO PAF that J-10 has now finally got a brand name.Yes there is hardware and software. But all this is just Average without these pilots in them.
I can go as far as to say that even Chinese Pilots need to learn a lot from PAF strategies. Yes China has some very good toys - but their Pilots need a lot of real war training.

The Pakistan Air Force's BVR was taught by China. Before the PL15 was equipped to Pakistan, the Pakistan Air Force did not have BVR.In the annual China-Pakistan military exercises, Chinese masters are teaching their apprentices.

 

[wanglaokan]

Don’t get too excited. IIRC the J-10CPs that the PAF do get was offered at prices below the cost of production, and even then it’s paid in the form of zero interest loans. The transaction yielded no net economic benefit for China and was really a geopolitical balancing move.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I believe until India acquires tangible VLO capabilities, China would not consider delivering J-31s to the PAF. They may train some pilots ahead of time like they did for the J-10C just in case or do collaborative exercises for the PAF to be familiar with the characteristics of the airframe, but that’s about it

india's loss is our benefit. if PAF get J35 means IAF has to go for F35, we are happy forcing Indians to the corner. USA will ask for sky high price selling F35 , which is the last thing India wanna see.
if USA can blackmail PAF on F16, they can do the same to India.

 

[Harbyharb]

Just for fun!

As one of the few that correctly ascertained the potential advantages of the J-10C in A2A engagements back in the day, and staunchly defended that opinion against the, uh, choice crowds here, you must be getting a lot of kick outta this aren’t ya

 

[Harbyharb]

india's loss is our benefit. if PAF get J35 means IAF has to go for F35, we are happy forcing Indians to the corner.

Keeping India deterred, disoriented, and discouraged, but keeping the peninsula stable is in China’s interest

Having India threatened, disadvantaged, desperate, and impulsive for an arms race, developing closer ties or even subservient (finally) to the US and giving the US another aspect to corner China is not

As if there isn’t enough F-35s around China already lmao

 

[wanglaokan]

The Pakistan Air Force's BVR was taught by China. Before the PL15 was equipped to Pakistan, the Pakistan Air Force did not have BVR.In the annual China-Pakistan military exercises, Chinese masters are teaching their apprentices.

PAF F16 block 50/52 can fire AIM-120c, which range is 80-120 KM.

 

[Harbyharb]

Just admit it - these are the Elite PILOTs of the PAF that have made this possible. IT IS DUE TO PAF that J-10 has now finally got a brand name.Yes there is hardware and software. But all this is just Average without these pilots in them.
I can go as far as to say that even Chinese Pilots need to learn a lot from PAF strategies. Yes China has some very good toys - but their Pilots need a lot of real war training.

I politely disagree. Just the elite pilot decided this conflict part, not that Chinese pilots don’t need to learn. Quite the contrary actually, PLAAF have been very very eager to train with other air forces with western equipment. Thai Gripen and Qatari Typhoon comes to mind, and I’m sure somewhere in Pakistan there’s a PLAAF liaison taking notes right now.

The Rafales that were knocked out came from the IAF 14th, aka the esteemed golden arrow squadron. The firsts to receive Rafales and as it is with IAF, does have very substantial annual flight hours under their belts. I do not believe that the Indian pilots were somehow inherently inferior.

And yes, while there has been countless analysis about how the J-10C would have an advantage over the Rafale in A2A engagement thanks to sensors and munitions, the differences are far from decisive.

I believe what actually decided this conflict is force multipliers. Pakistan have demonstrated practical joint aerial campaign capability, aka sensors from ground SAMs, AEW aircraft, frontline tactical jets, and munitions, were able to effectively collaborate. A popular speculation is that Pakistan tracked Indian aerial movements via ground HQ-9BE batteries and ZDK-03s, which relayed the information through directional datalinks to the J-10CPs which were able to approach the Indian aircraft inert, and thus able to employ their weapons within effective envelopes without effective reactions from the Indian aircraft.

And this I think, is the singular most important gift that the PLAAF had for the PAF

 

[wanglaokan]

Keeping India deterred, disoriented, and discouraged, but keeping the peninsula stable is in China’s interest

Having India threatened, disadvantaged, desperate, and impulsive for an arms race, developing closer ties or even subservient (finally) to the US and giving the US another aspect to corner China is not

As if there isn’t enough F-35s around China already lmao

india will bow down to USA sooner or later, cause both French and Russian fighter can't save their a$$. China don't milk our friends, while USA only milk their 'friends'.

 

[alphapak]

india's loss is our benefit. if PAF get J35 means IAF has to go for F35,

Only the Americans can make full use of the F35's, it will be difficult for the
Indians to integrate.

The Australians had a lot of problems with this jet even though they operated
American jets.

 

[Oscar]

I politely disagree. Just the elite pilot decided this conflict part, not that Chinese pilots don’t need to learn. Quite the contrary actually, PLAAF have been very very eager to train with other air forces with western equipment. Thai Gripen and Qatari Typhoon comes to mind, and I’m sure somewhere in Pakistan there’s a PLAAF liaison taking notes right now.

The Rafales that were knocked out came from the IAF 14th, aka the esteemed golden arrow squadron. The firsts to receive Rafales and as it is with IAF, does have very substantial annual flight hours under their belts. I do not believe that the Indian pilots were somehow inherently inferior.

And yes, while there has been countless analysis about how the J-10C would have an advantage over the Rafale in A2A engagement thanks to sensors and munitions, the differences are far from decisive.

I believe what actually decided this conflict is force multipliers. Pakistan have demonstrated practical joint aerial campaign capability, aka sensors from ground SAMs, AEW aircraft, frontline tactical jets, and munitions, were able to effectively collaborate. A popular speculation is that Pakistan tracked Indian aerial movements via ground HQ-9BE batteries and ZDK-03s, which relayed the information through directional datalinks to the J-10CPs which were able to approach the Indian aircraft inert, and thus able to employ their weapons within effective envelopes without effective reactions from the Indian aircraft.

And this I think, is the singular most important gift that the PLAAF had for the PAF

ZDK-03 are sitting on the ground. I see the eloquent effort to do whatever is necessary to not give credit to the PAF - bravo.

 

[sutton9999]

on the other hand, j35 is a offensive platform which can get in India and hunt without being detected. that's the real thing, and I think PAF is more ambitious than just to defend.
now India is stuck financing Rafale, it's a good chance for PAF to turn it around.

5th gen only has FRONT stealth. Big advantage in BVR, but not suitable for penetration.

 

[Harbyharb]

india will bow down to USA sooner or later, cause both French and Russian fighter can't save their a$$

No.

If you have studied the Indian foreign policies in recent years, you will see that is in fact not the case. No matter what you say about India, given its raw mass it is an aspiring regional power, and the neocons in Whitehouse in consecutive administrations were very not kosher with the idea. And India, with clear expansionist geopolitical vision in mind, also had no intention to form a reliance on the United states, effectively handing the US a leash.

I’m willing to wager that even if India decides to pursue VLO platforms, it would be based on the PAK-FA program (again). Not saying that they would revive the FGFA program, but it is more important that India acquire equipment that can be used by India to pursue its own agendas unchecked than to acquiring raw capabilities