PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[Waz]

So 20 more incoming. Very good. The PAF becomes stronger.

 

[rafale]

So 20 more incoming. Very good. The PAF becomes stronger.

How 20?

J-10 production lines will soon not be producing anything unless large orders come in.......so PAF and other airforces might want to place a larger order to bring costs down including perhaps this time getting depot level maintenance and associated manufacturing/major rebuild tooling kits as well.

 

[Ali_Baba]

So 20 more incoming. Very good. The PAF becomes stronger.

Good news if true. This means, where ever India decides to send its Rafales, there will be J10CE/JF17C's waiting to great them. India has the advantage of deciding where to place its jets, but Pakistan has the problem of trying to keep track of them and match them with the appropriate capability ( mostly due to India have the decision making freedom being the aggressor state ). That dance creates a capability window that can be exploited, but gets diminished with a few more J10CE's.

 

[Waz]

How 20?

J-10 production lines will soon not be producing anything unless large orders come in.......so PAF and other airforces might want to place a larger order to bring costs down including perhaps this time getting depot level maintenance and associated manufacturing/major rebuild tooling kits as well.

Another batch so based on the original order. It's also a question of funds.

 

[rafale]

Good news if true. This means, where ever India decides to send its Rafales, there will be J10CE/JF17C's waiting to great them. India has the advantage of deciding where to place its jets, but Pakistan has the problem of trying to keep track of them and match them with the appropriate capability ( mostly due to India have the decision making freedom being the aggressor state ). That dance creates a capability window that can be exploited, but gets diminished with a few more J10CE's.

That's the problem, India will not send their Rafales or any jet now. They will only do saturatation attacks by air launched and ground launched CMs.

They know Pakistan will have superior and longer range tracking and PL XX missiles regardless of what India gets from Russia for Su30s or Rafales

 

[rafale]

Another batch so based on the original order. It's also a question of funds.

I think most likely, in the near term, funds will not be an issue. Saudis will most likely bank roll the purchases or at least get favorable loan terms.

couple of billion USD is chump change for them.

 

[Aziqbal]

we only have roughly 20 x J10CP

we need 120 frontline fighters

plus we need J-35A

and add more JF17 Block 3+ work on block 4

 

[JamD]

Dear @arslank01


great idea goes beyond limitations, financial or otherwise.

why do you think, so many projects end up only as 'paper projects'?

by my understanding, I think it is because of, lack of genuineness.

and if it is lack of genuineness, even if we successfully develop a 'replication', mass production wont even solve our problem, because of the nature and size of our enemies!

what do you think?

@JamD is better positioned to answer this, but i believe its a mix of culture, weird bureaucracy, sanctions, finances, a lack of ability to produce, a lack of expertise, etc etc, basically everything lol but JamD will give you a better look

I assume this question is specifically about NASTP. Well NASTP is having such a hard time because:
a) it is envisioned mostly as a real-estate project: the focus is on complexes of buildings that will eventually house private companies.
Of course, the flaws with this are 1) who santioned the use of public funds for real-estate projects, and 2) its foolish to expect private companies to populate NASTP when Pakistan is so anti-business (and ironically pro-real estate)
b) Even if NASTP was a perfect organization, it is new. SPD orgs have decades of experience over NASTP and NASTP is trying to reinvent the wheel.
c) The people there mostly have no idea how to do large, serious, aerospace projects since they are PAF babus who've spent their lives doing MRO. There is a massive brain drain in Pakistan since Pakistan is such a hostile place for any smart person to live in so the new hires are mostly inexperienced engineers taught by the MRO babus again. Ask anyone and see how droves of SPD engineers (people who have the only experience in Pakistan) have left SPD orgs to go abroad - mostly ME.

 

[Ali_Baba]

I think most likely, in the near term, funds will not be an issue. Saudis will most likely bank roll the purchases or at least get favorable loan terms.

couple of billion USD is chump change for them.

If Pakistan is taking "loans" to purchase defence equipment to "defend" Saudi Arabia, then there is something very seriously messed up in the heads of GHQ !!!!

Saudi Arabia will have to directly finance itself, new procurements of equipment it wants/needs to fill in its defence gaps ..

 

[rafale]

If Pakistan is taking "loans" to purchase defence equipment to "defend" Saudi Arabia, then there is something very seriously messed up in the heads of GHQ !!!!

Saudi Arabia will have to directly finance itself, new procurements of equipment it wants/needs to fill in its defence gaps ..

what i meant was, with Saudi sovereign guarantees.....which are usually required in such nature of contracts so that incase government of Pakistan goes bankrupt, then saudis will provide those guarantees.

Of course saudis can directly pay upfront and have Pakistani military make the weapons available dual use....for self and of saudi defence use.

Main thing is Saudi money. That can change the dynamics of the region, as the entire world knows now that Pakistan will fight way above its weight class.

This will also allow slow but gradual inflow of Chinese influence in the GCC region as well, which uptill now has been purely Western/US led.

About a decade ago, most EPC projects in the GCC countries such as refineries, power plants, desalination plants etc were done by western contractors, But now realizing the cost and project timelines efficiency of Chinese EPC firms, many are now doing mega projects in GCC. This is how Chinese influence works, get in through the business deals and make yourself available for more.

 

[side-winder]

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[bravo_1]

I assume this question is specifically about NASTP. Well NASTP is having such a hard time because:
a) it is envisioned mostly as a real-estate project: the focus is on complexes of buildings that will eventually house private companies.
Of course, the flaws with this are 1) who santioned the use of public funds for real-estate projects, and 2) its foolish to expect private companies to populate NASTP when Pakistan is so anti-business (and ironically pro-real estate)
b) Even if NASTP was a perfect organization, it is new. SPD orgs have decades of experience over NASTP and NASTP is trying to reinvent the wheel.
c) The people there mostly have no idea how to do large, serious, aerospace projects since they are PAF babus who've spent their lives doing MRO. There is a massive brain drain in Pakistan since Pakistan is such a hostile place for any smart person to live in so the new hires are mostly inexperienced engineers taught by the MRO babus again. Ask anyone and see how droves of SPD engineers (people who have the only experience in Pakistan) have left SPD orgs to go abroad - mostly ME.

Yea speaking of private companies there, they are just selling a courses with bizarre fees and im sure no one in young is interested other then elites students.

 

[ThoroughPro]

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Is this real, don't know why but it looks like AI generated voice over on the previous video. Lip synch looks out of place on certain points. Maybe it is true, I did not saw his full briefer earlier.

 

[ThoroughPro]

we only have roughly 20 x J10CP

we need 120 frontline fighters

plus we need J-35A

and add more JF17 Block 3+ work on block 4

has the nation started shitting gold bricks after the floods devastated the whole country?

 

[Starlord]

If Pakistan is taking "loans" to purchase defence equipment to "defend" Saudi Arabia, then there is something very seriously messed up in the heads of GHQ !!!!

Saudi Arabia will have to directly finance itself, new procurements of equipment it wants/needs to fill in its defence gaps ..

We paid roughly 2 Billion for 20 J10's with Pl-15's, 2 Billion is nothing for Saudi's if they are really serious with the PACT and want Pakistan to safeguard their country, I know its bit off topic but if there is no concrete steps taken by any of the country I would consider this PACT as some media distraction, remember how the world was calling out Arabs for their inability to do anything against Israel, now a lot of people and countries are talking about this PACT, specially in Asia and Middle east.