PAF J-10CE News Updates and Discussions part ll

[RealNapster]

True, however fair to say Mirages and F-7PGs will be retired soon so number of types may stay the same

Germany produced almost 120,000 planes in world war 2. USA produced approximately 270,000. Currently USA only have 13000. And in 2040 it will require less than 10,000.

Does these power do not afford large airforce now ? They can. But technology improved. Aircraft losses reduced. Its lethality and firepower increased. Survivability increased. A modern 4th generation plane of today can take out 100 military planes of world war 2 in single sortie.

What i want to say is we do not need one to one replacement where every F7 and mirage is replaced with a 4/4+/5 generation fighter jet. But we still need atleast half of those numbers. So if 200 Mirafes+F7 are going to go then atleast 100 more planes are required. And we can not afford 100 J-35. So, indeed we need J-10Cs, we need JF-17 block 3s, and we can later add J-35.

 

[RealNapster]

We currently have:
F16s, J10CEs, Jf17s, F7PGs, Mirages, total 5 platforms but the last 2 are on their way out (most retired). When J35s come F7PGs will retire and more J10CEs and Jf17s will retire Mirages. Total 4 platforms will exist. Paf had no choice but to buy J10CEs since Usa would not upgrade F16s. In the 1990s we had F16s, Mirages, F7s, F6s and Q5s, total 5 platforms.

See, the issue is that J-35 will come. But not in enough numbers where we will be able to let go of all F7PGs. So for sometime (loke 5 years) you will habe 6 different platforms. Only after 2035 will we have just 4 types. But not before that.

 

[Yasser76]

Germany produced almost 120,000 planes in world war 2. USA produced approximately 270,000. Currently USA only have 13000. And in 2040 it will require less than 10,000.

Does these power do not afford large airforce now ? They can. But technology improved. Aircraft losses reduced. Its lethality and firepower increased. Survivability increased. A modern 4th generation plane of today can take out 100 military planes of world war 2 in single sprite.

What i want to say is we do not need one to one replacement where every F7 and mirage is replaced with a 4/4+/5 generation fighter jet. But we still need atleast half of those numbers. So if 200 Mirafes+F7 are going to go then atleast 100 more planes are required. And we can not afford 100 J-35. So, indeed we need J-10Cs, we need JF-17 block 3s, and we can later add J-35.

If deplying a permanent presence abroad cost may become less of an issue

 

[Tom_Cruise]

That what i fear too, we already have F-7PG's and old Mirages to replace, i am surprised that PAF only went for 20 J-10CE's, its not even 2 full sqs.

Probably lack of finances. 20 J10's doesn't even scratch the surface. We need a minimum of 60.

 

[iron shrapnel]

Deploying legacy F-16s to the gulf won't make sense anyways... They will have us outgunned and out ranged... Only reasonable deployment could be of JF-17-3s and J-10Cs.. I'm sure whatever PAC is trying to cook up with PFX alpha will be part of the equation... PAC won't miss it's share of the cake...

F-16 is still adequate in our theatre for now but it's not going to cut it in M.E. even mirages would fare better in a bomb truck role considering their unique payloads...

 

[hussain0216]

I've got a feeling that Pakistan views J10s, JF17sB3, F16s as all the same category

It doesn't view 20 J10s as stand alone fighters but more as a group of 250 or so fighters we have that do similar things


And it's just gathering finances for the J35, initially we may get 20-30 but over time they will just be added to

 

[Corax]

For once it seems like the PAF faces a dilemma of choice, in stark contrast to the late 80s and up to the end of the 90s, when it was under sanctions and all it could opt for were second hand mirages and F7s. It's now spoilt for choice - more Block 3/4 JF17s? More J10Cs? Go all in on the J35? Pursue PFX, whatever the heck that turns out to be?

 

[RealNapster]

Probably lack of finances. 20 J10's doesn't even scratch the surface. We need a minimum of 60.

Someone who lack finances, doesn't buy more expensive J-35. So IF we are buying J-35 and not increasing J-10C count, this " in my opinion " is a mistake.

 

[iron shrapnel]

I've got a feeling that Pakistan views J10s, JF17sB3, F16s as all the same category

It doesn't view 20 J10s as stand alone fighters but more as a group of 250 or so fighters we have that do similar things


And it's just gathering finances for the J35, initially we may get 20-30 but over time they will just be added to

I disagree... Most of the F-16 squadrons are slowly being moved south... I.e Bholari and moving of
F-16s to face whatever the Indian Navy's air wing thought they could bring forward.

So they are matching lances with the opposition...

The primary issue is money... If we had money there would have been more J-10s by now as JF17s are at almost full capacity of production and Airforce also wants something better than block 3s... So will move to PFX alpha whenever possible...

 

[Starlord]

Probably lack of finances. 20 J10's doesn't even scratch the surface. We need a minimum of 60.

And PAF never buy any Aircraft in such small numbers, so its very odd. I think J-10CE served us good and we should increase numbers to around 40-50, replace Mirages or F7PG.

 

[mythbuster]

And PAF never buy any Aircraft in such small numbers, so its very odd. I think J-10CE served us good and we should increase numbers to around 40-50, replace Mirages or F7PG.

J 10 ce is a stop gap measure..
Our future is J 35 and pfx .

 

[Ali_Baba]

And PAF never buy any Aircraft in such small numbers, so its very odd. I think J-10CE served us good and we should increase numbers to around 40-50, replace Mirages or F7PG.

I have the minority view ( if not the only sole on this forum ) that the PAF will not induct any more J10CE's. They were an emergency buy and PAF really wanted to wait for the J-35AE to be ready but were forced into it due to circumstances of the Rafale procurement.

I have the view that once the J-35AE starts landing in Pakistan and there is enough of them, that PAF will sell the J10CE back to China (or another J10CE operator if any come on line) and will instead focus on the J-35AE, KAAN and JF17 as the core fleet for its requirements going forward with the Mirage, F16, and F7PG's all slated for retirement. I don't expect PAF to operate the J10CE for that long at all ( as I say, this is my view which is a niche view, but I think I am right )..

 

[mythbuster]

I have the minority view ( if not the only sole on this forum ) that the PAF will not induct any more J10CE's. They were an emergency buy and PAF really wanted to wait for the J-35AE to be ready but were forced into it due to circumstances of the Rafale procurement.

I have the view that once the J-35AE starts landing in Pakistan and there is enough of them, that PAF will sell the J10CE back to China (or another J10CE operator if any come on line) and will instead focus on the J-35AE, KAAN and JF17 as the core fleet for its requirements going forward with the Mirage, F16, and F7PG's all slated for retirement. I don't expect PAF to operate the J10CE for that long at all ( as I say, this is my view which is a niche view, but I think I am right )..

Read my short post just above yours .

 

[Starlord]

I have the minority view ( if not the only sole on this forum ) that the PAF will not induct any more J10CE's. They were an emergency buy and PAF really wanted to wait for the J-35AE to be ready but were forced into it due to circumstances of the Rafale procurement.

I have the view that once the J-35AE starts landing in Pakistan and there is enough of them, that PAF will sell the J10CE back to China (or another J10CE operator if any come on line) and will instead focus on the J-35AE, KAAN and JF17 as the core fleet for its requirements going forward with the Mirage, F16, and F7PG's all slated for retirement. I don't expect PAF to operate the J10CE for that long at all ( as I say, this is my view which is a niche view, but I think I am right )..

Again, J-35's just went into production so first PLAAF will have their own numbers, and even if they did deliver lets say 20 J-35's to PAF, we will need time to master that jet, make strategies with it, J-10CE is already battle tested. It makes a lot more sense to add at least one more sq, right now J-10CE's are overstretch, we have Indians to look after, now we sen d fighter jets to KSA, and we are taking panga with Israel which has much much more advance Air force, so if we have battle tested J-10CE with PL-15's i'd say its better to have another sq, J-35's no one knows when they will come and what their performance will be.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Fair enough, my joke clearly overshot the runway. I’ve actually met Gen. Musharraf, so I should’ve known better than to sound like a YouTube conspiracy uncle. I just exaggerated for humor, not for historical documentation.

maray bhai, meeting someone for a bit and living it are two different things.
Same is the case with the living standard of a president and an army chief compared to an ordinary officer; even a general officer....these are two totally different things, which can be termed as "worlds apart".
The armed forces are a very tough profession, especially financially, with most officers spending most of their lives hand-to-mouth.

PS: this is something you don't joke about, especially about a specially bread who lay their lives on the line day in day out willingly. So if you can't appreciate the effort, then it's better to keep a lid on it.