PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[RealNapster]

Instead of wasting our time and energies on predicting when will J-35 arrive in Pakistan (which isnt going to affect the timeline by a single day), cant we like .... just wait ? Maybe leave things to its natural flow ? Why not lets treat it as a surprise whenever it arrives. ?

 

[Michael]

There is Not the developed ecosystem to go straight to 5th gen. What are pilots supposed to transition from or train on to build experience F7s or K8s ? Theres an advanced trainer requirement you can’t fly on a legacy fighter and expect to transition to 5th gen. It’s a completely different beast

How are the two Airforces, USAF and China transitioning their pilots from 4th Gen to 5th Gen?

Trainers are good, but do you really have the time and funds to obtain a dedicated trainer suited for 5th Gen?

J-10CEs pilots didn't get them either.

And you can always seek training support from the Chinese. Train your initial pilots over there, build up the skills, use simulators and then let them fly solo.

China's J-20 fighter pilots:
Initially, the situation was the same globally: all pilots came from the top tier.
Now, the main sources are:
1. Pilots from other aircraft types who switched to flying the J-20. It's particularly important to note that a large portion of these pilots transitioned directly from J-7 to J-20, bypassing the training process for 4th/4.5 generation fighters.
2. Some pilots were trained directly from the basics and immediately began flying the J-20 upon graduation. These pilots are typically very young and of very low rank. This characteristic is easily identifiable.
Experience flying a fourth-generation fighter jet is not a necessary qualification for a fifth-generation fighter jet pilot. If the PAF officially procures the FC-31/J-35, these pilots will undoubtedly be trained by China.

Instead of wasting our time and energies on predicting when will J-35 arrive in Pakistan (which isnt going to affect the timeline by a single day), cant we like .... just wait ? Maybe leave things to its natural flow ? Why not lets treat it as a surprise whenever it arrives. ?

Prime Minister Sharif has arrived in Beijing and will soon meet with President Xi Jinping and Premier Li Qiang.

We may be able to glean some clues once their outcome documents are released.

 

[Pakistan First]

Prime Minister Sharif has arrived in Beijing and will soon meet with President Xi Jinping and Premier Li Qiang.

We may be able to glean some clues once their outcome documents are released.

If PAF air chief has not tagged along then its unlikely for any major airforce procurement. Current CAS personality trait is all about power, attention and credit. So that's our first big clue. If he is not tagged along then the visit is unlikely for any j-35 talks / announcement.

 

[Michael]

If PAF air chief has not tagged along then its unlikely for any major airforce procurement. Current CAS personality trait is all about power, attention and credit. So that's our first big clue. If he is not tagged along then the visit is unlikely for any j-35 talks / announcement.

Your analysis of this issue is still at a superficial level.
You can summarize all the known information and conduct a deeper analysis.

Let me give you some hints:

1. Pakistan wants the FC-31/J-35. This is a publicly verified and confirmed fact.
2. China allows and hopes to sell the FC-31/J-35. This is also a publicly verified and confirmed fact.
3. An export version of the FC-31/J-35 has already appeared. This is also a publicly verified and confirmed fact.

For a deal to be completed, do these known conditions constitute a closed loop?
What necessary conditions are missing? How can they be resolved?

This is the focus of the analysis and research.

CAS has completed its core task in this closed loop. Whether it participates in subsequent matters is of no substantial significance.

 

[SABRE]

Your analysis of this issue is still at a superficial level.
You can summarize all the known information and conduct a deeper analysis.

Let me give you some hints:

1. Pakistan wants the FC-31/J-35. This is a publicly verified and confirmed fact.
2. China allows and hopes to sell the FC-31/J-35. This is also a publicly verified and confirmed fact.
3. An export version of the FC-31/J-35 has already appeared. This is also a publicly verified and confirmed fact.

For a deal to be completed, do these known conditions constitute a closed loop?
What necessary conditions are missing? How can they be resolved?

This is the focus of the analysis and research.

CAS has completed its core task in this closed loop. Whether it participates in subsequent matters is of no substantial significance.

It is also the most logical and the only 5th Gen option available at this stage. KAAN has not entered serial production for domestic induction, let alone for exports. It is also, as yet, reliant on an American engine, which may not be approved for re-export to Pakistan. J-35 would require significant internal infrastructure development, but it would still be relatively easy to incorporate it into the PAF's existing Chinese-origin ecosystem compared to KAAN.

Also, service chiefs are not needed for formal negotiations. That is usually a government-to-government formality. That said, there is nothing to suggest a deal on J-35 would be concluded during PM Sharif's ongoing visit to China, and there is nothing to suggest that it won't be. Given previous trends, particularly with J-10C, one shouldn't be surprised to learn of the deal mere few weeks before the jets land in Pakistan.

Finally, all hints are pointing towards J-35. KAAN is being closely observed but doesn't appear to be on the menu yet. If J-35s are inducted, KAAN's prospects would become very difficult.

Note: CDF Asim Munir is now in China. He is a de facto boss of the air force as well.

 

[Michael]

It is also the most logical and the only 5th Gen option available at this stage. KAAN has not entered serial production for domestic induction, let alone for exports. It is also, as yet, reliant on an American engine, which may not be approved for re-export to Pakistan. J-35 would require significant internal infrastructure development, but it would still be relatively easy to incorporate it into the PAF's existing Chinese-origin ecosystem compared to KAAN.

Also, service chiefs are not needed for formal negotiations. That is usually a government-to-government formality. That said, there is nothing to suggest a deal on J-35 would be concluded during PM Sharif's ongoing visit to China, and there is nothing to suggest that it won't be. Given previous trends, particularly with J-10C, one shouldn't be surprised to learn of the deal mere few weeks before the jets land in Pakistan.

Finally, all hints are pointing towards J-35. KAAN is being closely observed but doesn't appear to be on the menu yet. If J-35s are inducted, KAAN's prospects would become very difficult.

Note: CDF Asim Munir is now in China. He is a de facto boss of the air force as well.

Your understanding is slightly better than the previous commenter's, but still not enough.

To reiterate, no one is questioning that PAF will purchase FC-31/J-35 fighter jets. The core issue is time.

The biggest hurdle in this deal is money.

Pakistan doesn't have enough money. Even if Pakistan receives funding from Saudi Arabia or other countries, the total amount available under its credit line is still insufficient to support the completion of this transaction.

This is not a small amount. It's not just the cost of purchasing some fighter jets, but also the entire ecosystem supporting 5th-generation fighter jets.

The only country capable of providing financial services to support this deal is China. However, Pakistan's overall national credit has already been overdrawn within the Chinese financial system.

What remains is a political issue. Under current conditions, only political means can improve national credit. This requires in-depth communication and negotiation between politicians from both sides.

Only after the national credit is improved can Chinese financial institutions provide financial services based on Pakistan's new national credit assessment. With this endorsement, PAF can begin signing contracts with CATIC.

 

[niubi]

Your analysis of this issue is still at a superficial level.
You can summarize all the known information and conduct a deeper analysis.

Let me give you some hints:

1. Pakistan wants the FC-31/J-35. This is a publicly verified and confirmed fact.
2. China allows and hopes to sell the FC-31/J-35. This is also a publicly verified and confirmed fact.
3. An export version of the FC-31/J-35 has already appeared. This is also a publicly verified and confirmed fact.

For a deal to be completed, do these known conditions constitute a closed loop?
What necessary conditions are missing? How can they be resolved?

This is the focus of the analysis and research.

CAS has completed its core task in this closed loop. Whether it participates in subsequent matters is of no substantial significance.

All of that's cool but ... money. Is China going to donate these fighters? No, of course not. Where is Pakistan going to get the funding for a decent enough sized fleet?

 

[lightning f57]

All of that's cool but ... money. Is China going to donate these fighters? No, of course not. Where is Pakistan going to get the funding for a decent enough sized fleet?

I suspect the PAF will have a multiyear budget and procurement will follow according. There will be no big bang, they will slowly put in place the needed infra, get pilots and mechanics and engineers familiarised, maybe buy or loan a few models and then in Aug 2028 per my prediction take official inventory of half a squardron or more.

Money is no doubt the challenge but they must have budgeted for its procurement just the timelines maybe a little out.

 

[mythbuster]

Your understanding is slightly better than the previous commenter's, but still not enough.

To reiterate, no one is questioning that PAF will purchase FC-31/J-35 fighter jets. The core issue is time.

The biggest hurdle in this deal is money.

Pakistan doesn't have enough money. Even if Pakistan receives funding from Saudi Arabia or other countries, the total amount available under its credit line is still insufficient to support the completion of this transaction.

This is not a small amount. It's not just the cost of purchasing some fighter jets, but also the entire ecosystem supporting 5th-generation fighter jets.

The only country capable of providing financial services to support this deal is China. However, Pakistan's overall national credit has already been overdrawn within the Chinese financial system.

What remains is a political issue. Under current conditions, only political means can improve national credit. This requires in-depth communication and negotiation between politicians from both sides.

Only after the national credit is improved can Chinese financial institutions provide financial services based on Pakistan's new national credit assessment. With this endorsement, PAF can begin signing contracts with CATIC.

Pakistan doesn't borrow from financial institutions for her defense procurement... " Over drawn from Chinese financial institutions " ???...
..got to admire you for getting away with your gibberish on PDF.

 

[Pakistan First]

Your analysis of this issue is still at a superficial level.
You can summarize all the known information and conduct a deeper analysis.

Let me give you some hints:

1. Pakistan wants the FC-31/J-35. This is a publicly verified and confirmed fact.
2. China allows and hopes to sell the FC-31/J-35. This is also a publicly verified and confirmed fact.
3. An export version of the FC-31/J-35 has already appeared. This is also a publicly verified and confirmed fact.

For a deal to be completed, do these known conditions constitute a closed loop?
What necessary conditions are missing? How can they be resolved?

This is the focus of the analysis and research.

CAS has completed its core task in this closed loop. Whether it participates in subsequent matters is of no substantial significance.

I think you have to work a bit on comprehension or your translation software. Plus study Pakistan's power structure only then you will be able to make a sound analysis. Pakistan is very different than normal countries in most ways. Your 1,2,3 points were totally unnecessary. Somethings really not need to be repeated while replying a simple comment. We all are fully aware that Pakistan has shown interest in J-35 and CAS himself told in one of the meetings. We all know about Pakistan is China's largest defense products export destination and that J-35 export variant is specifically developed as well. Point is not if but when.

You yourself were talking about "hints" & "clues". So I gave you such while knowing the power structure in state of Pakistan. I was not saying that Pakistan do not want J-35. I am just skeptical of anything coming out from this visit.

 

[Yasser76]

Pakistan doesn't borrow from financial institutions for her defense procurement... " Over drawn from Chinese financial institutions " ???...
..got to admire you for getting away with your gibberish on PDF.

Actually I think you will find we do, often government to government deals involve financial institutions and Pakistan has borrowed for deals in the past. So maybe go easy on the insults

 

[EgoKaempfer]

What remains is a political issue. Under current conditions, only political means can improve national credit. This requires in-depth communication and negotiation between politicians from both sides.

“Improving national credit” here doesn’t mean Pakistan magically fixing its economy overnight. It means China’s political leadership deciding to treat Pakistan as a special case worthy of more credit, overriding the normal financial risk assessments because of the relationship’s supreme strategic importance

A political risk assessment made in Beijing and not Moody’s or a bank’s risk committee.

Now the question to be asked remains; "what terms should Pakistan’s politicians must negotiate with China’s politicians to secure a deal?"
(in case of Pakistan, the term politicians is to be treated as a slight euphemism )

 

[mythbuster]

Actually I think you will find we do, often government to government deals involve financial institutions and Pakistan has borrowed for deals in the past. So maybe go easy on the insults

No Pakistan doesn't borrow for defence purchases from financial institutions.

 

[Yasser76]

No Pakistan doesn't borrow for defence purchases from financial institutions.

It has done with Sweden, Italy, Turkiye and France in the past

 

[mythbuster]

It has done with Sweden, Italy, Turkiye and France in the past

Would you care to elaborate on the deals ....

, what financial institutions were involved .... how much loan was approved and what were terms and conditions