Pakistan-Af: Operation Khyber Storm

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I remember in early days of 2010 or 2011 there was a suicide bombing in swat area and the main mastermind was captured. It turned out he was arrested a few years back for terrorism but court ordered to release him due to evidence being considered mostly circumstantial.
Which then provides justification for bullet riddled bodies because the courts failed to provide justice. They failed the civilian victims and the military martys - eventually you wont let go of those losses and take action - someone high up initially authorized it purely out of frustration with the system.

Give you a different example - a few years ago police were encouraging(unofficially)citizens of Karachi if they had the opportunity to shoot mobile thieves - and then police would take responsibility. Because if they caught them then they would be out in less than an hour.

Is it “justified” then to take such mob justice or extra judicial actions?

Perhaps - or perhaps not.
But then under the same “guidelines” I can pick up or shoot anyone I disagree with or offends me
 
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Good number. Looks like easily 500+ dead

Afghans are coping. LMAO.

They're saying they killed 100 Pakistani soldiers, and captured 50 outposts.

We know that at least 200 talib bodies have been identified.

The bad thing is though, Pakistan didn't do enough PR. It needs to do something big in order to show the Afghans that Pakistan is actually serious.
 

Should we be at war with Afghanistan?​

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Lt Col Dr Muhammad Ali Ehsan October 12, 20255 min read
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the writer is a non resident research fellow in the research and analysis department of ipri and an assistant professor at dha suffa university karachi

The writer is a non-resident research fellow in the research and analysis department of IPRI and an Assistant Professor at DHA Suffa University Karachi


The morning was lit up with the news that Pakistan carried out air strikes on targets in Afghanistan. The whole afternoon the news was not confirmed by official sources in Pakistan until the DG ISPR conducted a press conference in the evening. To the explicit question to confirm the validity or otherwise of this claim, the DG ISPR gave no direct answer. Yet the news was making round in the international media and in the end the Afghanistan government also accused Pakistan of carrying out air strikes on its territory.

My first reaction to this news is that Pakistan and Afghanistan are not at war, they cannot be at war. The conflict with Afghanistan can never be seen as a war in its traditional sense because it will never be an open, declared and a hostile conflict. Historically, our conflict with Afghanistan is characterised more by our own and Afghanistan's internal problems, some of them are of our own making and they spill over a long and porous shared border.

But clearly, today we may have witnessed the beginning of the unfolding of a new military strategy to resolve the Afghan problem. But is this the right strategy? The answer to this question is something reflected in the American experience in Afghanistan. I would like to quote two American-led Western assumptions that went horribly wrong in the decades that followed the end of Cold War. One was liberal and the other was illiberal.

The liberal assumption was that history is dead and has been replaced by interdependence and the illiberal assumption was that hard power could deliver political outcomes. Russia's resurgence from the death of Soviet Empire and China's rise devastated what was left of the fragmented world order that the US created in the unipolar moment. Not interdependence but the great powers competition resurfaced and became the new geopolitical reality, thus proving this liberal assumption wrong.

American use of hard power in Afghanistan and Iraq and supporting Israel to use it in Gaza and the 12-day war with Iran failed to deliver the political results. Iraq experienced a long civil war, Afghanistan became another story of how another superpower was forced to retreat, finding little answer to the asymmetric warfare it was exposed to and the losses that it suffered. Iran may continue the enrichment of uranium and may now be more inclined to acquire enough weapon-grade uranium to produce a bomb, and after the return of the hostages, it remains to be seen how long the ceasefire will hold on whether peace will be the final outcome of this deal.


Israel's dream of seeking recognition from the Muslim world, signing Abraham Accords and live in conditions of relative peace may still be a far-fetched dream. There is nothing wrong in perusing the idea of Abraham Accords but the method Israel has used to force the Muslim world to submit to this idea will never be popular with the general public in the Arab monarchies or elsewhere in the Muslim world. We are getting a sense of what it may mean in the form of the ongoing TLP street protest in Pakistan.

The lesson for Pakistan from both these assumptions in the context of our relationship with Afghanistan is important. When the West led by America was calling history dead, and it proceeded to bring back Afghanistan to the only living and thriving civilisation represented by the democratic world it failed. No military intervention and no interference in the internal affairs of Afghanistan is a lesson that the US and the superpowers before it have left behind. We shouldn't try to re-write history. The second lesson is that hard power should be used only as the last resort when diplomacy has failed, but has diplomacy failed? Diplomacy cannot be allowed to fail because that means the beginning of war.

The DG ISPR during his briefing said that "status quo will not be tolerated any more" and that all unilateral and multilateral engagements with Afghanistan had failed to deliver the results. The general impression that the DG ISPR gave was that a political government that is against the military operation against Taliban may not be acceptable to the military. The central point here is the political and military disconnect in whether the military operation in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa should continue or not. That to me is the pivot and the fundamental question around which our policy on Afghanistan revolves.

It is the decisive element that may ensure the success or failure of our Afghan policy and thus the setting of the pivot becomes the crux of our strategy formulation. It will decide what kind of effort is to be concentrated — military or diplomatic? Only after we have answered this fundamental question and rightly determined the pivot to our Afghan policy that we may be able to align the means to achieve the right political end.

In classic military terms, pivot was always a geographical position like a fortress or a fortified position or a natural landmark like a river or a mountain range, but today the idea has expanded to include a political idea as pivots centre of gravity. Thus, diplomacy or military operation is the fundamental question, the pivot, the crux — the point where decision, resources and movements must converge to produce strategic coherence to achieve the end. Politically, it must be decided what matters the most to us and what we should protect at any cost, and what both Pakistan and Afghanistan can leverage to each other to reach an amicable accord.

Without the pivot, the military strategy will have no direction or focus, it is the axis of movement and without it and the public support that comes with it no military operation can make the headway. 'Pivot to Asia' of the US, almost a decade-old strategy, is a good example because the American pivot is not geographic alone but a geopolitical pivot based on a deliberate shift of strategic focus and resources towards the Asia-Pacific — a political decision that stems from recognising that the balance of power in Asia is central to future global order. Our strategic focus on Afghanistan must also be clear — diplomacy or military action?

My last observation is that the modern age and the complexity of problems that we face demands that National Security Council must be utilised as the right forum for interaction between the military and the politicians. The US has it since 1947, Britain and France since 2010, so why can't Pakistan have this forum where typically all stakeholders indulge in consultation and can unilaterally undertake a decision which underlines a unity of action — something we need the most.
 
If this conflict proves anything it is that the policymakers in Pakistan have failed in their 45+ years of adventurism in Afghanistan. That adventurism may have allowed a few people to make lots of US dollars but it’s only brought death and destruction to the people of Pakistan, not to mention millions of dead Afghans. It also cost Pakistan 4+ decades of lost economic growth.

After all those years of playing games in Afghanistan we’re back to square one. In fact, a much worse situation than 45 years ago .

If I was an investor I would be even more reluctant to invest in a country like Pakistan that is in a state of war with both its neighbors, is internally unstable, is led by mafia families etc.
I guess you had no problem with soviet union knocking at your door with an eye on Baluchistan and. Warm waters ....our economy was not screwed by our glorious adventures rather it was given the legs to stand on ....it was poor economic policies not Afghanistan mess that led to economic meltdown later on.....what about our nuclear program ? Do you think we would have completed it without getting involved in Afghanistan ?
 
1000 terrorists killed in IBOs ? And IBO mean intelligence based operation. So you are mostly 90-100% sure based on intelligence that there are terrorists.

14000 IBOs mean 14000 such sureties. Yet it only worked 1000 times ? 1 in every 14 times ? Bhai ye Kaisi intelligence hue ?

Aik coin toss kro to usme b har 2 me se aik bar head any ka chance hota hy. Idhr to har 14 IBOs me se 1 terrorist mar Raha wo b number 1 secret agency ki reports par ki gae operations me ?

Today's report of The Guardian

Some worrisome paragraphs...

“Pakistani Taliban are present in every village around here now,” said Ahmed. “It seems they have a network of spies or informants who can tell them about local police who take part in raids on their camps.”

In areas of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, the TTP have established a significant presence, setting up checkpoints and roadblocks. Militants walk openly in residential areas, where they take food from local people and are accused of extorting and holding businesses to ransom.

Nisar Ali, a local political leader and resident of North Waziristan, one of the centres of the insurgency, said the “militants roam freely. They ride bikes and rickshaws without any fear, not far from the military camps. We see them roaming around all night and day. It’s only the movement of the security forces, not the militants, that is restricted.”

“Drones, target killings, curfews, the militants roaming in North Waziristan is the new normal,” said Ali. “We see drones flying above our heads but most of the time they kill women, children and the elderly, even our livestock, but not the militants.”

Shit is almost out of control in many parts of KP, it seems
 
That - is an impossibility for an artificial forced gathering of people as in Pakistan who have not yet truly adopted the identity or are simply too disenchanted with the state to begin with.
The identity must be defined in the first place, but there have been several periods of revision from Muslims of the subcontinent to Muslims of the subcontinent sans-Bengal, to secular nationalism, to "Islamization" to Enlightened moderation. Whether it's TTP or Pakhtun/Baloch ethnic nationalists, how can each be refuted when the nation itself is a hybrid, let alone the system of rule? And that is why the strategic peril for Pakistan cannot be absolved through a kinetic approach vis-à-vis the ideologically conjoined neighbour to the West.
 
even after APS and similar attacks smh these people will never learn
people who know me from previous forum may recall that I left the forum for few years but never asked why I left.
some of my old and new fellow forum members rage and grit their teeth when I post less than flattering commentary for a party I had high hopes but it turned out to be just full of hot and smelly gas.

these innocent friends that live thousands of miles away from Quetta Hazara Mohalla and Parachinar , have a romantic and soft spot for the tribals that butcher the people in these areas due to their wrong sect and their methods are no less gruesome than those who have filmed themselves playing football with the skulls of Pakistani soldiers, they have done that to Turi and Hazara people as well but it didnt reach the news.

so one of my hazara Class fellow,, his one relative was slain by Daesh and you know the misery didnt end for his family... these people would cut parts of his body and toss it over his home and even parceled it because they had the national ID card with them.
the tribals that have effectively enforced an embargo on Parachinar have a very clear verdict for their victims , no discrimination for men, women, and children. beheading, molesting and butchering the kids first and then the parents is part of a ritual. I wish it was all fake and AI but about 15 to 20 years ago the was no AI and the software's were not that great to make realistic pictures.

and here were are cursing each other being for and against Imran the savior god emperor and his nemesis Munir the evil Dajjal. the entire nation is spending their entire time on this while our fellow countrymen continue to join the ranks of the TTP and daesh. we are all responsible for this situation , we the people and the elites we vote for (those that take turns between jail and PM chair) and the establishment (civil, military).
in short these were the reasons I left the forum in pure disgust and anguish.
 
So, now that dust is settling, let's ask some questions why this conflict happened in the first place?
  • Did the Afghan Taliban simply decide to provoke Pakistan just to appease the Indians?
  • Did they think Pakistan will only issue a strong condemnation but wouldn't go as far as launching airstrikes on the Afghan capital?
  • Did the Taliban think that the Indians will issue some statement in their favour against Pakistan?
If so, it doesn't seem to have gone very well. A major miscalculation on the Afghan Taliban's part.

If anything, India feels embarrassed that the country it was threatening has beaten up yet another country, and shown videos of its airstrikes on the Afghan territory.

What India only threatens for 4 months, Pakistan delivers in 4 days.
 
still baffles me he is alive and giving sermons
he is not just giving sermons he threatens police and rangers while brandishing weapons. only declares his allegiance to Daesh and has not taken back his fatwa that Pakistani soldiers killed fighting TTP are haram and doesn't deserve Jinaza or burial.

it goes to show that Establishment and PTI are indeed on the same page and we are just following Truck key Batti.
 
I dont have that much info about daesh or ISKP in pakistan but is there presence that big?...i have seen iskp millitants caught by agencies which are recruited from central asia and russia but not Pakistanis
 
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