Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

[Michael]

With only 20 right now and the powerful AESA it has, I really hope we just keep them focused on air to air and the pilots skill in BVR on edge

Yes.

The original design of the J-10 series fighter jet was as an air superiority fighter, and this is also its role within the PLAAF.
Based on the demands of the international export market, the J-10CE underwent some modifications to become a multi-role fighter. However, its core essence remains that of an air superiority fighter, and its multi-role capabilities are not outstanding.
Therefore, allowing the PAF to utilize it in its intended role is a better approach.

I suggest that the PAF could negotiate with relevant Chinese agencies to make minor modifications to the PAF's existing fighter jets and related air-to-ground/anti-ship munitions, enabling them to directly cooperate with the J-10CE. Other fighter jets would carry the air-to-ground/anti-ship munitions, while the J-10CE would provide guidance and control at the front lines.

I actually think the PAF should acquire the FTC2000G Mountain Eagle for LIFT/OCU and even close air support/ground attack. It's cheap, Mach 1 capable, common engine/airframe with the F7s, and something our boys can thrash the hell out of to hone their skills and training. Plus it comes with latest advanced avionics.

The FTC2000G is not well-suited to Pakistan's needs.

A better option would be to purchase retired JH-7A2 aircraft from the PLAAF.
1. The JH-7A2's capabilities in all aspects are suitable for the PAF's needs. It can utilize many Chinese heavy air-to-ground munitions. It can also carry advanced large EW pods.
2. The PLAAF's currently active JH-7A2 aircraft have not been in service for long and still have a long service life remaining. The price of these second-hand fighter jets would also not be too high.

Too expensive to convert them... we are already working on all types of drones in collaboration with Turkieye and China, as well as indigenous projects.

The information we have gathered indicates that:

A complete modification kit and the associated modification costs total approximately $300,000 to $600,000. The exact cost depends on various factors, including the tactical requirements after modification, the utilization rate of existing components, and the current condition of the fighter jet.

 

[AeronautIR]

Does it include the #50 sqn, which is hoarding the retired airframes, and for what purpose??

Nope, just 7, 22 and 27...

 

[AeronautIR]

No drone can carry the amount of weight at speed and range a Mirrage can? It can be a cruise missile . 4 tons of explosives can be carried by Mirage 3 i guess, and the plane can go to 1200km with that sort of load.
Lesser weight will take it further.

How will those explosives be fired with precision if there is no pilot? The data link requirements and avionics upgrades for such missions are not economically feasible.

 

[AeronautIR]

Maybe time to swap out all the Mirages and F7PGs with JF17Cs asap. Much cheaper and will bring more relative capability than a small number of new build F16s will bring with the same amount of money will bring.

That is the plan. The F-16 was nowhere in plan before recent Pak-US shift since May.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

How will those explosives be fired with precision if there is no pilot? The data link requirements and avionics upgrades for such missions are not economically feasible.

I previously said in this forum after may 7-10 clash we can use super mashak in the role to counter drones. We need to instal guns on super mashak if not already on it. Why super mashak would be better than aircraft? Its slow and so are drones, it will be more suitable in hitting drones using its gun than aircraft which is too fast

 

[Mohid Afzal]

That is the plan. The F-16 was nowhere in plan before recent Pak-US shift since May.

Are there plans to induct more JF-17 B3's? If so, how many more do you think will come?
Also, any updates on the localization of JF-17's that we have been reading about for a while?

 

[ThrustVector998]

Nope, just 7, 22 and 27...

what about 25's Rose 2s?

 

[Corax]

Yes.

The original design of the J-10 series fighter jet was as an air superiority fighter, and this is also its role within the PLAAF.
Based on the demands of the international export market, the J-10CE underwent some modifications to become a multi-role fighter. However, its core essence remains that of an air superiority fighter, and its multi-role capabilities are not outstanding.
Therefore, allowing the PAF to utilize it in its intended role is a better approach.

I suggest that the PAF could negotiate with relevant Chinese agencies to make minor modifications to the PAF's existing fighter jets and related air-to-ground/anti-ship munitions, enabling them to directly cooperate with the J-10CE. Other fighter jets would carry the air-to-ground/anti-ship munitions, while the J-10CE would provide guidance and control at the front lines.


The FTC2000G is not well-suited to Pakistan's needs.

A better option would be to purchase retired JH-7A2 aircraft from the PLAAF.
1. The JH-7A2's capabilities in all aspects are suitable for the PAF's needs. It can utilize many Chinese heavy air-to-ground munitions. It can also carry advanced large EW pods.
2. The PLAAF's currently active JH-7A2 aircraft have not been in service for long and still have a long service life remaining. The price of these second-hand fighter jets would also not be too high.


The information we have gathered indicates that:

A complete modification kit and the associated modification costs total approximately $300,000 to $600,000. The exact cost depends on various factors, including the tactical requirements after modification, the utilization rate of existing components, and the current condition of the fighter jet.

I was referring to the FTC2000 in the role of LIFT and trainer, not heavy ground attack aircraft. The FTC2000 shares a lot of similarity in airframe and engine with the F7s the PAF already use. Although the JH7 would be a good ground attack aircraft, it would mean having to induct a new type in the PAF fleet, new airframe and new engine.

 

[AeronautIR]

Are there plans to induct more JF-17 B3's? If so, how many more do you think will come?
Also, any updates on the localization of JF-17's that we have been reading about for a while?

I think the plan is to upgrade block 2 with AESA and focus on PFX for an upgraded 4.5 gen fighter, along with R&D for indigenous 5th gen. In case of any delays in this project, we can always order another sqn of block 3.

 

[AeronautIR]

what about 25's Rose 2s?

Flying with 27 and will retire in a year or so.

 

[Yasser76]

I think the plan is to upgrade block 2 with AESA and focus on PFX for an upgraded 4.5 gen fighter, along with R&D for indigenous 5th gen. In case of any delays in this project, we can always order another sqn of block 3.

Not sure man, my feeling is we will not upgrade them, it surely would have been done by now no?

Also, PAC will now be at max capacity no? We have PAF's Block III order to still fill, Azeri order and now new undisclosed customer. Just unsure if we even have the manpower or factory space to upgrade the Block IIs....

 

[AeronautIR]

I previously said in this forum after may 7-10 clash we can use super mashak in the role to counter drones. We need to instal guns on super mashak if not already on it. Why super mashak would be better than aircraft? Its slow and so are drones, it will be more suitable in hitting drones using its gun than aircraft which is too fast

Not SMK because of multiple reasons... the C-UAS in Indo-Pak scenario should not be done by aircraft... our focus is on mobile ground-based systems for both soft and hard kills.
The Russo-Ukraine war and USA's use of aircraft for countering UAS are different from the dynamics of our conflict.

 

[AeronautIR]

Not sure man, my feeling is we will not upgrade them, it surely would have been done by now no?

Also, PAC will now be at max capacity no? We have PAF's Block III order to still fill, Azeri order and now new undisclosed customer. Just unsure if we even have the manpower or factory space to upgrade the Block IIs....

That is why many plans are fluid... if we see timely induction of J-35 and any breakthrough in PFX soon, there may be no need to spend money on upgrading all block 2.
Bottom line, we are ready for both scenarios. With 2 sqn of J-10, J-35 and JF-17 blk 3 each, we may not need (or afford) to upgrade any older aircraft if we have new indigenous 4.5 gen (may be 5th too) aircraft ready for production.

 

[Ali_Baba]

The Block I's may not have enough airframe life left to warrant an upgrade(unless there is a way to zero the airframe in a cost effective manner ? ) ?

Did the JF17C have an increase in service life beyond the 4,000hrs of the Block I airframe ? ( The engines for Block I were rated for about a lifespan of 2000 hours ). Block II's had structural changes to allow for larger payloads(2000lb bombs) but I don't believe there was an increase in service life from that block variant.

 

[Ak01]

certifications toh dur ki baat hai. Most are happy with shitty ISO 140001 etc certifications to proudly display.

paf isnt though, they will only take easa/faa certs, but thats my point, its all doable, just no appetite, but tbh, its the paf's fault for this, many have tried, yet paf will not budge,