iblini
Trusted Member
yep, it is.
Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion
- Thread starter Ali_Baba
- Start date
Maarkhoor
Snake Eater
You still think PL-15E was used and score a kill at 198KMS + while announced range of PL-15E is 150KMS.
Lion
Trusted Member
At least one Kill was with an HQ9B - We do not know which one but there is a higher likelihood of it being the one at 198KM given its location.
Maarkhoor
Snake Eater
As per PAF sources that kill was done by air to air missile not by air defense.
Lion
Trusted Member
PAF in this case is not a reliable source - I know that sounds strange - but OSINT never considers a combatant a source.
Lion
Trusted Member
I’m going to make a lot of people unhappy with this - I’ve been gone a long time and I came back expecting a bit better from PDF regarding Pakistans Fatah Strikes on India. For anyone who’s still trying to argue about their success - they were generally NOT successful.
There is no fanciful reason of secrecy behind there not being any BDA or Sat imagery showing damage - we’ve already seen sat imagery of several targets Pakistan claims to have struck and most of them are undamaged. The reason there isn’t any reporting on it by the Pakistani side is specifically because there are little to no real hits or damage - particularly if we consider Open source information. I’ve gone through nearly 200 videos and images of the missiles landing, of impact craters and of potential interceptions and that’s just one of the reasons I can confidently tell you that the Fatah did not perform too well.
Does this mean the Fatah is a terrible platform? No, it just got used in a real combat scenario for the first time and the PA used like a total of 3-5 TELs, so not many missiles. Moreover the Indian claims of intercepting “all” or even “most” of the missiles are bullshit, notice how they’ve not shown a single wreck or part of a Fatah missile, it’s because they didn’t intercept any to begin with - most of them did land, just not on their targets, they landed within a few kilometers of them. This indicates either Fatah needs improvements or that India had strong jamming, or both - and the PA is already studying that in depth to rectify what went wrong.
The Pakistani response was far smaller than people think it was - there’s could be number of reasons for this - I.e. anticipating a larger ground conflict and wanting to save conventional missiles, the response being cut short by global de-escalation and diplomatic missions etc.
There is no fanciful reason of secrecy behind there not being any BDA or Sat imagery showing damage - we’ve already seen sat imagery of several targets Pakistan claims to have struck and most of them are undamaged. The reason there isn’t any reporting on it by the Pakistani side is specifically because there are little to no real hits or damage - particularly if we consider Open source information. I’ve gone through nearly 200 videos and images of the missiles landing, of impact craters and of potential interceptions and that’s just one of the reasons I can confidently tell you that the Fatah did not perform too well.
Does this mean the Fatah is a terrible platform? No, it just got used in a real combat scenario for the first time and the PA used like a total of 3-5 TELs, so not many missiles. Moreover the Indian claims of intercepting “all” or even “most” of the missiles are bullshit, notice how they’ve not shown a single wreck or part of a Fatah missile, it’s because they didn’t intercept any to begin with - most of them did land, just not on their targets, they landed within a few kilometers of them. This indicates either Fatah needs improvements or that India had strong jamming, or both - and the PA is already studying that in depth to rectify what went wrong.
The Pakistani response was far smaller than people think it was - there’s could be number of reasons for this - I.e. anticipating a larger ground conflict and wanting to save conventional missiles, the response being cut short by global de-escalation and diplomatic missions etc.
Lion
Trusted Member
To further talk about what went wrong on our side - because as usual there don’t seem to be enough people doing that - the YIHA-III drones performed horribly - I don’t know what they expected trying to use what seems like a NUST students Project in a war. I can find maybe one successful hit by a YIHA-III in the whole engagement.
And again, the Indian claims of Pakistan using “hundreds of drones” or using them on multiple days are bad excuses for their AD firing at nothing on multiple nights because of poorly trained trigger discipline.
Pakistan only used drones on the final day and they performed poorly. These were very cheap drones and they likely won’t Find much use again, PA is getting better LMs.
Though to be fair India used many more and much more expensive drones and they performed much the same, drones were just not viable in our theatre because of AAA and Jamming, this is not Ukraine-Russia where both armies don’t know the first thing about combined armed tactics. Even the DG ISPR admitted that drones simply did not work in our theatre.
And again, the Indian claims of Pakistan using “hundreds of drones” or using them on multiple days are bad excuses for their AD firing at nothing on multiple nights because of poorly trained trigger discipline.
Pakistan only used drones on the final day and they performed poorly. These were very cheap drones and they likely won’t Find much use again, PA is getting better LMs.
Though to be fair India used many more and much more expensive drones and they performed much the same, drones were just not viable in our theatre because of AAA and Jamming, this is not Ukraine-Russia where both armies don’t know the first thing about combined armed tactics. Even the DG ISPR admitted that drones simply did not work in our theatre.
Mighty_Dragon_Strike
Trusted Member
Thank you, China and Chinese people for all the support.
Yasser76
Elite Member
TAC
Registered Member
Looks amazing, please confirm where I can get one
Yasser76
Elite Member
Seems like the West is turning on their child. Many of you UK based will now how shocking this headline is from The Telegraph, arguably one of the most pro Israel, pro India and anti-muslims papers around
Lion
Trusted Member
The Last thing - and perhaps the biggest cause for concern on the Pakistani side - is the AD Gaps. The Fatah not finding its mark or the drones being bad are very minor issues because Pakistan has better and more numerous versions of both those weapons - keep in mind Fatah original purpose was to replace the Nasr - not be a long range strike weapon - and Fatah 2 was not used in this conflict.
Pakistans AD gaps were alarming - India used maybe 30% of its total strike capacity that night and Pakistan still had multiple interception failures - it is purely by the grace of god that Pakistan came out of that strike mostly unharmed - minus losing those airmen at Bholari.
Pakistan lost two extremely expensive Air Command Vehicles and a building complex at Nur Khan, Two damaged maintenance hangars and maintenance equipment at Bholari and Jacobabad, minor damage to an underground facility and a lost overground building complex at Murid, a damaged aircraft shelter at Sargodha, a Damaged C-130 (needed two new engines and a wing) and two damaged runways (minor). If any of these hits were just a little more on target or India used maybe 10% more of its strike capacity we could have been looking at a lost C-130 or AWACS.
Of course the PA and PAF have already realized their shortcomings and are working to fill them - but it’s not all roses for Pakistan in this conflict and that is what really should be discussed a couple of months in - Pakistan has nothing to prove to the Indian trolls that are still coping over their confirmed losses and claiming fanciful figures for ours.
In my opinion - The AD gaps were not due to quality but quantity - where Pakistan had AD present - Interceptions were regular and reliable - even up to 6-7 interceptions at single airbase. Plus either india had Terrible aim as well or Pakistan also has good jamming to where a good portion of Indian missiles undershot or overshot their targets - but we still had alarming hits on Pakistani airbases. PAF and PA need more AD ASAP, especially LOMADs for the PAF.
Pakistans AD gaps were alarming - India used maybe 30% of its total strike capacity that night and Pakistan still had multiple interception failures - it is purely by the grace of god that Pakistan came out of that strike mostly unharmed - minus losing those airmen at Bholari.
Pakistan lost two extremely expensive Air Command Vehicles and a building complex at Nur Khan, Two damaged maintenance hangars and maintenance equipment at Bholari and Jacobabad, minor damage to an underground facility and a lost overground building complex at Murid, a damaged aircraft shelter at Sargodha, a Damaged C-130 (needed two new engines and a wing) and two damaged runways (minor). If any of these hits were just a little more on target or India used maybe 10% more of its strike capacity we could have been looking at a lost C-130 or AWACS.
Of course the PA and PAF have already realized their shortcomings and are working to fill them - but it’s not all roses for Pakistan in this conflict and that is what really should be discussed a couple of months in - Pakistan has nothing to prove to the Indian trolls that are still coping over their confirmed losses and claiming fanciful figures for ours.
In my opinion - The AD gaps were not due to quality but quantity - where Pakistan had AD present - Interceptions were regular and reliable - even up to 6-7 interceptions at single airbase. Plus either india had Terrible aim as well or Pakistan also has good jamming to where a good portion of Indian missiles undershot or overshot their targets - but we still had alarming hits on Pakistani airbases. PAF and PA need more AD ASAP, especially LOMADs for the PAF.
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Lion
Trusted Member
There are confirmed open source images and videos (multiple) of 4x Fighters and 1x UAV at this point.
The two other claimed Rafale Kills do not have any videos or images - I believe only one of them is a likely kill, the other is either only based off electronic signatures or is just the PAF using the upper hand to claim higher numbers - It’s actually a smart move, if you’ve shot down 4 enemy aircraft, you can easily claim 6, because the enemy can’t just go “actually we only lost 4!” without looking like fools.
Lion
Trusted Member
The bottom line is:
1. Indian AD performed somewhat better than Pakistani AD. Pakistani AD had big quantity gaps.
2. Drones were largely useless for both sides - though India used a lot more of them and better ones and they still failed to do much real damage.
3. PAF was vastly superior to the IAF In just about every domain - shooting down 4-6 jets is one thing, not losing a single in return is an even bigger show of air superiority.
4. Indian Missile and air strikes were far better aimed and co-ordinated than Pakistani ones - they had numerous misses and interceptions too but they actually struck their targets and did damage.
5. They did not successfully hit Pakistani Radars - those were bogus claims with low quality satellite imagery that were later disproven. I’ve already mentioned successful Indian hits above.
6. There is little to no evidence that PAF successfully hit S400 - in fact the PAF did not even officially claim as such in the initial press briefing - they only mentioned finding and targeting it (listen to the AVMs words) - which in itself is a big deal. The missiles either missed, or were intercepted, maybe they did minor damage, but that’s all we can prove - all the circumstantial evidence like there not being a radar in Modi’s visit or that dead radar operator is very sketchy. There is proof of PAF having bad targeting co-ordinates for its CM400 missiles (e.g. one of them hit a CRPF hospital - that was because of bad targeting data).
1. Indian AD performed somewhat better than Pakistani AD. Pakistani AD had big quantity gaps.
2. Drones were largely useless for both sides - though India used a lot more of them and better ones and they still failed to do much real damage.
3. PAF was vastly superior to the IAF In just about every domain - shooting down 4-6 jets is one thing, not losing a single in return is an even bigger show of air superiority.
4. Indian Missile and air strikes were far better aimed and co-ordinated than Pakistani ones - they had numerous misses and interceptions too but they actually struck their targets and did damage.
5. They did not successfully hit Pakistani Radars - those were bogus claims with low quality satellite imagery that were later disproven. I’ve already mentioned successful Indian hits above.
6. There is little to no evidence that PAF successfully hit S400 - in fact the PAF did not even officially claim as such in the initial press briefing - they only mentioned finding and targeting it (listen to the AVMs words) - which in itself is a big deal. The missiles either missed, or were intercepted, maybe they did minor damage, but that’s all we can prove - all the circumstantial evidence like there not being a radar in Modi’s visit or that dead radar operator is very sketchy. There is proof of PAF having bad targeting co-ordinates for its CM400 missiles (e.g. one of them hit a CRPF hospital - that was because of bad targeting data).
Be dazzled
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
IAF couldn't fire a single missile. They were blind and deaf on the day.
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