Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[Oracle]

Pakistan lost two extremely expensive Air Command Vehicles and a building complex at Nur Khan,

First time some one acknowledging it...

 

[Lion]

First time some one acknowledging it...

My acknowledgment isn’t really needed either - it’s confirmed by open source satellite imagery.

 

[Yasser76]

My acknowledgment isn’t really needed either - it’s confirmed by open source satellite imagery.

Share these pics?

 

[Princeps]

There is proof of PAF having bad targeting co-ordinates for its CM400 missiles (e.g. one of them hit a CRPF hospital - that was because of bad targeting data).

Was this the one in Jammu? Couldn't it have been a Fatah-1? Because, Bantalab Jammu where the hospital is located, is completely off-course from Adampur.

 

[Yasser76]

Difference between the content and demenour of Bhutto compared to Jaishanker. Latter is going round the world moaning, former is looking at solutions.

Join Pakistan’s anti-terror efforts, Bilawal repeats offer to India

Former foreign minister emphasises need for resolving Kashmir dispute and ending weaponisation of water.

www.dawn.com

 

[Oracle]

Shivangi Singh...

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[arsalan345]

The Indian focus on more SU30 plus S400 to me is a clue that their future attacks on Pakistan will entirely be BrahMos launched from SU30 deep inside India and then to handle the Pakistani attack.

yes because they have su-30s in large numbers and it can fire brahmos. Pakistani jets only fire raad and other standoff but speed is important here as supersonic or hypersonic are more deadly than subsonic. What we need is a similar system like brahmos. Unfortunately china and pak didn't work together to make similar project. I think it's already too late to start such a project.

If they fire too many, it will be hard to intercept. Our jets can't fire anything similiar to brahmos which is not a good thing. Capability gap is visible but what can we do about that? within months, we can't change anything but for long term, we can design a hypersonic cruise missile with the help of chinese.

 

[Michael]

Looks amazing, please confirm where I can get one

You can buy it on any Chinese e-commerce platform. If you can access a Chinese e-commerce platform, you can try it.
Search for the keywords "大霹雳 + 咖啡杯"
The price in China is RMB 39.00. Its overseas sales price may be more expensive.

 

[FuturePAF]

India getting advice from Israel on Pakistan specifically, by name.

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39:46 (small infrequent wars to deter and get back to focusing on economic growth to grow the gap with your rival)

46:33 talks about nuclear proliferation with regards to North Korea and Pakistan. (Building a narrative against Pakistan)

58:57 Adapt to diplomatic trends

 

[Developereo]

yes because they have su-30s in large numbers and it can fire brahmos. Pakistani jets only fire raad and other standoff but speed is important here as supersonic or hypersonic are more deadly than subsonic. What we need is a similar system like brahmos. Unfortunately china and pak didn't work together to make similar project. I think it's already too late to start such a project.

If they fire too many, it will be hard to intercept. Our jets can't fire anything similiar to brahmos which is not a good thing. Capability gap is visible but what can we do about that? within months, we can't change anything but for long term, we can design a hypersonic cruise missile with the help of chinese.

Whole world has known about BrahMos since 2016.

Did we think India would not use them against us and we would not need a counter?

 

[Developereo]

Seems like the West is turning on their child. Many of you UK based will now how shocking this headline is from The Telegraph, arguably one of the most pro Israel, pro India and anti-muslims papers around

Access Restricted

Normally, the Israeli lobby supplements the media PR for India in the West but the Israelis have been a tad busy saving their own image these last couple of years.

 

[arsalan345]

The Last thing - and perhaps the biggest cause for concern on the Pakistani side - is the AD Gaps. The Fatah not finding its mark or the drones being bad are very minor issues because Pakistan has better and more numerous versions of both those weapons - keep in mind Fatah original purpose was to replace the Nasr - not be a long range strike weapon - and Fatah 2 was not used in this conflict.

Pakistans AD gaps were alarming - India used maybe 30% of its total strike capacity that night and Pakistan still had multiple interception failures - it is purely by the grace of god that Pakistan came out of that strike mostly unharmed - minus losing those airmen at Bholari.

Pakistan lost two extremely expensive Air Command Vehicles and a building complex at Nur Khan, Two damaged maintenance hangars and maintenance equipment at Bholari and Jacobabad, minor damage to an underground facility and a lost overground building complex at Murid, a damaged aircraft shelter at Sargodha, a Damaged C-130 (needed two new engines and a wing) and two damaged runways (minor). If any of these hits were just a little more on target or India used maybe 10% more of its strike capacity we could have been looking at a lost C-130 or AWACS.

Of course the PA and PAF have already realized their shortcomings and are working to fill them - but it’s not all roses for Pakistan in this conflict and that is what really should be discussed a couple of months in - Pakistan has nothing to prove to the Indian trolls that are still coping over their confirmed losses and claiming fanciful figures for ours.

In my opinion - The AD gaps were not due to quality but quantity - where Pakistan had AD present - Interceptions were regular and reliable - even up to 6-7 interceptions at single airbase. Plus either india had Terrible aim as well or Pakistan also has good jamming to where a good portion of Indian missiles undershot or overshot their targets - but we still had alarming hits on Pakistani airbases. PAF and PA need more AD ASAP, especially LOMADs for the PAF.

Problem is only Brahmos. Let's accept it and find solution. Look at our airbases! Let's say another round starts. They will start it with drones so that we can remove expensive sams from their location to hide them from drones and in the meantime, they will commence air attack. How can a jet fly when you are continuously targeted by brahmos? It's fast, it's accurate. We simply don't have any solution and we don't have anything like Brahmos in our arsenal. This is the problem. Even if we have a solution, India will see the problem in the software and change it.

I think we have to remain airborne all the time which is impossible. We need pinpoint accuracy next time. Fatah is good for one day war, not good enough for 5 to 10 days war. We have to use our cruise missiles and let's see if they are working. Indian ADS is perforimg well because they have so many different systems and they are making new systems on their own which is remarkable. We must focus on building our own sams. It's costly in the beginning but we must because India is doing it. How many chinese sams will we buy? We have to make our own stuff.

 

[arsalan345]

Whole world has known about BrahMos since 2016.

Did we think India would not use them against us and we would not need a counter?

Question is how to stop Brahmos? This will decide our fate as we have nothing compared to brahmos in our arsenal. even Iranian hypersonic is better than our fatah etc. What's the point of not using cruise missiles when enemy is using it? It's perplexing.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

The bottom line is:
1. Indian AD performed somewhat better than Pakistani AD. Pakistani AD had big quantity gaps.
2. Drones were largely useless for both sides - though India used a lot more of them and better ones and they still failed to do much real damage.
3. PAF was vastly superior to the IAF In just about every domain - shooting down 4-6 jets is one thing, not losing a single in return is an even bigger show of air superiority.
4. Indian Missile and air strikes were far better aimed and co-ordinated than Pakistani ones - they had numerous misses and interceptions too but they actually struck their targets and did damage.
5. They did not successfully hit Pakistani Radars - those were bogus claims with low quality satellite imagery that were later disproven. I’ve already mentioned successful Indian hits above.
6. There is little to no evidence that PAF successfully hit S400 - in fact the PAF did not even officially claim as such in the initial press briefing - they only mentioned finding and targeting it (listen to the AVMs words) - which in itself is a big deal. The missiles either missed, or were intercepted, maybe they did minor damage, but that’s all we can prove - all the circumstantial evidence like there not being a radar in Modi’s visit or that dead radar operator is very sketchy. There is proof of PAF having bad targeting co-ordinates for its CM400 missiles (e.g. one of them hit a CRPF hospital - that was because of bad targeting data).

Would prefer to discuss this in a dedicated post-war assessment thread but some key things that stood out from the Pakistani side that raise questions:

1. Air defence was clearly inadequate in at least quantity — though from initial reports, it seems Pakistan had decent success in jamming incoming projectiles and kinetic intercepting some where AD was present. India did score some hits, which can be argued of as high-strategic value.

Could we perhaps even see defence from a different perspective and credibly adopt a Swedish doctrine of dispersed operations? Or look for options of underground or mountainous bases? It's worth analysing the feasibility of this.

2. The wartime strategic command seemed extremely immature and indecisive, like they had no plans or contingencies in place — they waited for 2-3 days just giving statements and reports while India was launching loitering munitions, it didn't really seem like they were really in control of the tempo like they claimed.

3. Pakistan’s retaliation didn't actually involve complex missile vectors like cruise or ballistic missiles, it used basic Fatah 1 MLRS at best. While India was launching SCALPs, BrahMos, Rampage, etc. One suspected reason for this is that Pakistan didn't actually have much adequate conventional stocks to begin with — or perhaps foreign diplomatic pressure to give a restrained response really was strong.

It's worth considering do we have survivable and credible strike options for deep into India, considering their depth and air defence? This means highly-stealth optimised VLO missiles, as well as extremely high-speed (hypersonic/supersonic) projectiles.

4. The choice of loitering munitions was highly questionable — who in their mind thought that the Yiha drones were a good platform? Loud, noisy, slow, and probably expensive. They even have wheels and launch gear. Seems like an extremely poor design choice and even more poor to actually purchase such a thing.

Designs emulating something like the Shahed series seem the most optimal and efficient.

6. BDA assessment was non-existent from the Pakistani side. An argument can be made that not many actual fixed ground structures were targeted so there's little to actually show. Aircraft wreckage relies on open source posts, which we did see much of (in India).

5. What does this mean for future conflicts, how will they look like? Will we see fast-paced rapid launches of complex missile systems? What can we expect the Indian side to improve on (especially in the air force considering the poor performance) and how can we better prepare for it?

 

[TAC]

You can buy it on any Chinese e-commerce platform. If you can access a Chinese e-commerce platform, you can try it.
Search for the keywords "大霹雳 + 咖啡杯"
The price in China is RMB 39.00. Its overseas sales price may be more expensive.

Thanks for that but tried searching both Temu & Ali Express without any luck. Any chance u would be kind enough to give me a link? Will be for overseas supply.