Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[NA71]

Lie lie lie saaaaar...

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they were very kind by allowing us to keep 10% capability ....

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

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very delusional discussion. BJP leadership is not stupid.
BJP is funded by all the billionaires of India.
War and subjugation is their only objective, both inside and outside India!

 

[Lion]

Was this the one in Jammu? Couldn't it have been a Fatah-1? Because, Bantalab Jammu where the hospital is located, is completely off-course from Adampur.

I thought it was Fatah as well, but I was told it was a CM400 which confused me too - apparently it really was that badly of course. The pilot was pretty unhappy too.

 

[Lion]

Share these pics?

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

View attachment 132822View attachment 132823View attachment 132824

I dont find any debris...

no debris, makes missile hit very questionable!

 

[Lion]

I dont find any debris...

no debris, makes missile hit very questionable!

I mean no offense but…are you blind?

 

[Lion]

Problem is only Brahmos. Let's accept it and find solution. Look at our airbases! Let's say another round starts. They will start it with drones so that we can remove expensive sams from their location to hide them from drones and in the meantime, they will commence air attack. How can a jet fly when you are continuously targeted by brahmos? It's fast, it's accurate. We simply don't have any solution and we don't have anything like Brahmos in our arsenal. This is the problem. Even if we have a solution, India will see the problem in the software and change it.

I think we have to remain airborne all the time which is impossible. We need pinpoint accuracy next time. Fatah is good for one day war, not good enough for 5 to 10 days war. We have to use our cruise missiles and let's see if they are working. Indian ADS is perforimg well because they have so many different systems and they are making new systems on their own which is remarkable. We must focus on building our own sams. It's costly in the beginning but we must because India is doing it. How many chinese sams will we buy? We have to make our own stuff.

As per my knowledge they had at least 1 if not 2 successful SCALP Hits as well. Though I’d be happy to be proven wrong on that data.

 

[Lion]

Question is how to stop Brahmos? This will decide our fate as we have nothing compared to brahmos in our arsenal. even Iranian hypersonic is better than our fatah etc. What's the point of not using cruise missiles when enemy is using it? It's perplexing.

The most likely answer is small stockpiles and wanting to save them in anticipation for a larger enemy ground assault. Again, Fatah was never intended to be a strike weapon like this - it’s intended use was against Indian armored columns advancing into Pakistan - I.e. replacing Nasr.

 

[Lion]

Would prefer to discuss this in a dedicated post-war assessment thread but some key things that stood out from the Pakistani side that raise questions:

1. Air defence was clearly inadequate in at least quantity — though from initial reports, it seems Pakistan had decent success in jamming incoming projectiles and kinetic intercepting some where AD was present. India did score some hits, which can be argued of as high-strategic value.

Could we perhaps even see defence from a different perspective and credibly adopt a Swedish doctrine of dispersed operations? Or look for options of underground or mountainous bases? It's worth analysing the feasibility of this.

2. The wartime strategic command seemed extremely immature and indecisive, like they had no plans or contingencies in place — they waited for 2-3 days just giving statements and reports while India was launching loitering munitions, it didn't really seem like they were really in control of the tempo like they claimed.

3. Pakistan’s retaliation didn't actually involve complex missile vectors like cruise or ballistic missiles, it used basic Fatah 1 MLRS at best. While India was launching SCALPs, BrahMos, Rampage, etc. One suspected reason for this is that Pakistan didn't actually have much adequate conventional stocks to begin with — or perhaps foreign diplomatic pressure to give a restrained response really was strong.

It's worth considering do we have survivable and credible strike options for deep into India, considering their depth and air defence? This means highly-stealth optimised VLO missiles, as well as extremely high-speed (hypersonic/supersonic) projectiles.

4. The choice of loitering munitions was highly questionable — who in their mind thought that the Yiha drones were a good platform? Loud, noisy, slow, and probably expensive. They even have wheels and launch gear. Seems like an extremely poor design choice and even more poor to actually purchase such a thing.

Designs emulating something like the Shahed series seem the most optimal and efficient.

6. BDA assessment was non-existent from the Pakistani side. An argument can be made that not many actual fixed ground structures were targeted so there's little to actually show. Aircraft wreckage relies on open source posts, which we did see much of (in India).

5. What does this mean for future conflicts, how will they look like? Will we see fast-paced rapid launches of complex missile systems? What can we expect the Indian side to improve on (especially in the air force considering the poor performance) and how can we better prepare for it?

Very good understanding of the situation - I’ll respond to this properly when I have time.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

India getting advice from Israel on Pakistan specifically, by name.

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39:46 (small infrequent wars to deter and get back to focusing on economic growth to grow the gap with your rival)

46:33 talks about nuclear proliferation with regards to North Korea and Pakistan. (Building a narrative against Pakistan)

58:57 Adapt to diplomatic trends

Pakistani policy should take into account the very clear economic warfare aspect of things going on. If there goal is to launch infrequent wars to 'deter' and grow an unjustifiable disproportionate economic gap — then Pakistan should target Indian economic infrastructure the moment aggression is shown — oil terminals, ports, connective infrastructure, power plants, etc.

Consider it a sort of conventional MAD in different domains.

Generally speaking, the kinetic domain is just one of several domains we are fighting, and while it's extremely important to be prepared, there are several other domains that cannot be ignored.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Very good understanding of the situation - I’ll respond to this properly when I have time.

Going to open a separate thread and tag you, since this is going to get clogged with several other topics.

Probably better to reply there.

 

[Ali_Baba]

My "PL-15E" coffee cup has arrived, what do you think of it?
I think it's a little bigger than I expected.
------ There is green tea in my cup.
View attachment 132803

Nice - would love one too - but getting hold of such things in the UK tends to be difficult ! Enjoy ( nice laptop )

 

[Developereo]

Question is how to stop Brahmos?

How do other countries intercept such missiles?

We can also use common sense low tech approach such as building reinforced tall barriers on the eastern and southern perimeter of our bases since India will fire their BrahMos either from India itself or from the Arabian Sea. If bases can be built using natural protections in these directions, then so much the better.

Of course, India may be able to fire a few from proxies in Afghanistan but the bulk of their attack would come from India itself or the Arabian Sea.

This will decide our fate as we have nothing compared to brahmos in our arsenal. even Iranian hypersonic is better than our fatah etc. What's the point of not using cruise missiles when enemy is using it? It's perplexing.

Agreed, if we can make cheap cheaply enough in quantity.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

I mean no offense but…are you blind?View attachment 132825
View attachment 132826View attachment 132827

are you blind and deaf?!!!

asking for debris or crater, makes one blind?!!!

 

[Lion]

are you blind and deaf?!!!

asking for debris or crater, makes one blind?!!!

You can literally see the damage in the multiple photos - along with the demolished building and the wrecks of the trucks. I’m not sure how someone being “deaf” affects conversations over text but I digress - let’s not start a fight.