Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[Khanivore]

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[Oscar]

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Considering these accounts tend to put out AI altered videos as well - I would take these with a pinch of "I need to see the original recording".

 

[side-winder]

Considering these accounts tend to put out AI altered videos as well - I would take these with a pinch of "I need to see the original recording".

This one is real though. Same thing repeated yeaterday by Indian COAS.

 

[Oscar]

This one is real though. Same thing repeated yeaterday by Indian COAS.

In that case it validates what is being said about them having the learning types in place - and embracing that Pakistan has abilities. Now how fast they implement counter measures and adapt their plans is the question best left to the abilities of their military leaders and team, and the willingness of their political leaders to accept failed iterations of these learning processes instead of "just say it's good news".

Also in this is the fact that "Backchannel currency" was still in play to try and defuse situations instead of inflaming them - but fuel to all the "restraint" complaints and so on without realizing that this side does not wish for a longer conflict due to sustainment issues in current economic shambles but is willing to warn in line with "If no options are left we will hit".

 

[Oscar]

Come on bro. You think PAF was ill-prepared in Feb 2019 and May 2025? They hit the IAF proper HARD enough to make the IAF run away.

I want to clarify at the outset that this is a discussion about negotiation, signaling, and deterrence as analogies, not a justification of conflict or an attempt to gloat. My own approach, whether in personal or political contexts, is to avoid confrontation wherever possible.

Two observations might help illustrate how calculated restraint actually works in practice.

1. During a local turf or political dispute, someone I know managed to de-escalate tension by calling his counterpart directly and saying, in essence: “I am not asking you to forget what happened or to reconcile, but this should not extend beyond this incident. If it does, it will become harder for both of us to contain.” That was not a threat. It was a boundary. It conveyed that continued escalation would hurt both sides, so mutual restraint was the logical choice.
   
   
2. In another situation, when someone from an influential family acted menacingly, the response they received was a clear statement of deterrence. They were reminded that, if pushed beyond a point, consequences could expand uncontrollably. The intent was not posturing or aggression, but to force a moment of calculation about costs and consequences.

In both examples, the same logic applies to international relations. Real restraint is not weakness; it is calculation. Those who accuse one side, in this case Pakistan, of showing restraint as if it were mere timidity often miss how deterrence works. Sometimes purposeful non-escalation is a signal of both capability and control. @hnn

 

[ThoroughPro]

Hardly - their rockets regularly put systems in space. Used fairly advanced cryogenics which Pakistanis cannot even find a single local expert for.

russian engines, russian tech, not indian

 

[Ibbi32]

While we can laugh at how bad of a deal this is for them it can't be ignored how much of a tough position it puts us in, I think the bigger question should be what can we do about so many Rafales which say are to be delivered over the course of 5 or so years, even if we induct 40 more J-10Cs they would still be outnumbered 3 to 1, J-35s are beyond 2030 for us, I think it entirely depends on if the PFX or whatever can deliver anything.

This deal wont even start deliveries in 5 years. Because dassaults production is backed up like crazy and even with some limited amount of indigenous production at HAL the vast majority of components will still be assembled in india and produced in France putting strain on dassaults already struggling supply chain. Thus this is complete non worry for the next 10 years atleast as dassault is backed to 2032-2036 already . By the time these come into picture we’re looking at whatever pfx is being completed and 2nd j35 batch purchases

 

[Ibbi32]

At this point, you have to assume that they have a lot of the infrastructure in place to support the Rafale. So, logically, the 3rd order would be more representative of actual unit cost ( + munitions), with a little fluff for plane specific support services.

This contract of $36 billion for 114 works out at $315.7 million per UNIT.. There must be alot of ammunition, or alot of kickbacks and corruption baked into this contract. Nothing else would make sense.

Pakistan can get a J10CE for $50million, to "counter" a $315million dollar Rafale.... go figure.

Indians are very fair rivals. They cancel out their massive economic disparity by unrivalled stupidity

 

[Alex]

Not sure how any of this is related - the drones story makes little sense when there is an actual story of Indian troops raising alarm at Jupiter and Venus along the LAC and saying these were drones.

These days Jupiter or Capella may be making their imagination run wild.

PSLV failures arent directly linked to ICBM and rare failures for what is an organization(ISRO) with likely the best R&D record in the subcontinent.

Boss, I am sure you are sarcastic. Aren't you?

 

[Alex]

Indians are very fair rivals. They cancel out their massive economic disparity by unrivalled stupidity

In one of the videos on this thread, the Indian narrator said, 3+ years for the Indians to approve the deal and another 2 years for it to be formalised with France. A deal 5 years in the making, let alone the expected delivery and assembly setup in India.
All that for a 4.5-generation fighter jet, which would be completely irrelevant as a frontline air superiority jet at that time. Mind boggles.

 

[Alex]

Only they manage to hit hanger with large aircraft which is repaired and back to service.

One more thing just like they shoot down their SAR helicopter during clashes in 2019 this time also they have made same blunder but they kept mum and I have profs for that need permission from someone to publish it I assume they have soot down their own fighter jet.

You are right; I heard one Indian analyst alluding to it too. But he refused to share details to save the IAF from humiliation.
One thing is very certain: there are lots which the IAF is reluctant to admit and are never going to admit. But their losses are far greater than generally discussed. It is also very clear from the current update of Google Maps that Indian bases got far more damage than Indian claims of destruction of PAF air bases.

 

[Psyko70]

Hello guys,

Rafale Deal of 114 should be taken with pinch of salt. Problem is that just like that MMRCA program of 128 jets that led to induction of only 36 Rafales. This time 114 jets with new tranche / variant, more improved spectra and meteors in large quantity is included in deal. the payment is not full payment, so the deal can go south anytime.

The forum members saying that "PAF needs to ramp up" is an insult to Pakistan Air Force reputation, even after repeatedly saying that for years since early 2010's I have seen this on forums that PAF needs to do this and that. However, truth is that PAF did more then even our daydreaming demands / wish list. No one anticipated PAF will perform that good. We only ought it to survive Su30 and Rafale rampage.

PAF doctrine is to train the pilots in against the simulated worst conditions. Pretty sure PAF has been training to even counter F35 as there was chance Indians will get it too. You can deny the quality of Army or Navy but not PAF. Good thing is Air force is the first line of defense not army or navy.

PAF knows what it is doing. It knows after success of may conflict if it derails into over celebration and egoistically think that Indians will lay low now is wrong. India has money and it will buy the shortcomings or indigenous-ly deal with it. Indians are good in science and have R&D better than us.

Basically my thinking is that India is being scammed by Russia and France in defense deals, giving them assurance that the weapons will make Indians deal with even western counterparts. But the tech was export quality. Soviets used to do this and now Russia too. Dont you guys remember chest thumping Su30 Raptor of east etc the bars radar and PESA tech. On paper the tech was sophisticated but it wasn't in 19 or 25 conflict.

Truth is there operational readiness is weak in case of conflict. between quarter towards the half of indian airforce seems like they are not even mission capable let alone Full-mission-capable.

However, the performance was too weak even weaker then how Indians fared in 71 and 65 war. K/D ratio is appalling for Indians in 19 and 25.

Yes, same could happen to Pakistan anytime. That is why Pakistan has been secretive about further j10 deals and j31.​

 

[Cash gk]

Off topic and I hope the moderators will allow one final post.
Facts and the history of the cruelty wrought by a savage enemy in our nation must be told,
We must examine the conditions prevailing in Pakistan to understand why medical care even to the Founding Father of the nation was inadequate.
In late 1948 Pakistan was completely and utterly bankrupt and was officially a failed state, with a worthless currency that was merely rubber stamped demonetized British Government of India bank notes,
The industries of British ruled India were mainly in the areas that remained in India. Pakistan was a tribal, agricultural economy and after independence was militarily attacked, sanctioned and blockaded literally into the stone age.
Pakistan was critically short of medical supplies, and doctors, and the hospitals were rendered useless without power, or functioning ambulances. There was no funding to import these. Hundreds of thousands of babies and pregnant women; millions of sick, and elderly ( including injured refugees from India), perished because of lack of medical care.This was a fearful toll, far worse than the Coronavirus pandemic of 2020-21 .
It was not just civilians, but ill equipped army personnel fighting a war unleashed by a seven times superior well armed enemy in the freezing mountains of Kashmir who also suffered from lack of medical and surgical care.
Tens of thousands of soldiers died in those fateful months because their injuries couldn't be treated in the gutted Army hospitals.The official civilian and military toll due to the embargo on medical supplies has never been counted or acknowledged by any government since 1947.
The pain of those who suffered has been recounted by the survivors of the horror. My family personally suffered in those fateful months There was only one female gynecologist in the then East Pakistan and in the primitive conditions of the filthy Dhaka hospital labor room, she performed a cesarean section without adequate anesthesia on my aunt, She delivered the baby, but my aunt died of infection and trauma. Shortly afterwards this gynecologist herself died because there was no one to deliver her baby.
Medical conditions in Pakistan were primitive, so primitive that even the Qaid e Azam could not be given adequate treatment for his medical condition.
Pakistan's ambassador to the USA had received an offer from the US government offering assistance to fly the Quaid-e Azam Jinnah to the USA for treatment. A special long range aircraft would be provided by the USA. Qaid-e-Azam Jinnah refused saying he couldn't put such a burden of expenses on his bankrupt nation. (Note: This incident has been recounted by Air Commodore Khalid Chishti in a recent interview )
On the Jinnah monument:
It is ironic that the mausoleum of the Qaid-e-Azam is far more elegant and beautiful than Nehru's own memorial which is frequently vandalized by Hindutva fascists.
it is equally ironic that if as claimed Pakistan's Founding Father, wasn't honored in his last days, India's Founding Father Mr. Mohandas Karamchand fared far worse with three bullets in his head ( said to be punishment for getting some funds released to Pakistan).
The most ironic of all is the fact that Nehru and Gandhi are both cursed today by their own people and their monuments, statues and memorials vandalized globally, The Qaid e Azam's memorials have so far escaped vandalism

This is going off topic, and I don’t want to turn this into a confrontation—especially as this discussion is about India–Pakistan, not internal moderation issues.
But I need to clarify one thing: I disagree with your conclusion.
Pakistan did have enough basic resources at the time to at least ensure that its Founding Father was kept in Karachi, where the country’s best available medical facilities existed. Moving him away from Karachi was a choice, not an inevitability. That decision cannot be explained away solely by poverty or external pressure.
The same question applies to Fatima Jinnah, who stood beside her brother throughout the freedom struggle. What followed for her later also raises serious questions about how the founders were treated by the state they created.
You are also missing a key historical point regarding 1948 and Kashmir. The outcome in Azad Kashmir was not decided by a regular Pakistani army campaign or casualty numbers alone. It was local freedom fighters and tribal Mujahideen who changed the situation on the ground. That context matters when discussing responsibility, sacrifice, and agency.
I don’t want to derail this thread. If anyone wants to explore these issues further, it would be better done in a separate discussion.

 

[hasn2009]

Arey bas kar do yar. Roz aik General media pe aa ky Sindoor Sindoor karna shuru kar deta he. So worried about PR? Eh?

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Inka jeena marna Pakistan hai, their news is Pakistan, their political shows are about Pakistan, movies are about Pakistan, their diplomacy and lobbying is all about Pakistan, they are so obsessed with us.

 

[flyingorca]

Ok, now i am convinced that the Indians have identified F16 altimeter.
what a bunch of circus retarded clowns they are