Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[Bratva]

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[Vkdindian1]

I have hardly seen any joy for this deal at all. The majority has shown severe disdain. Not all of them are doing it because they have political affiliation with the opposition.

Display of joy is hardly a criterion for a purchase like this. When the first batch of 36 was finalised there were similar instances on social media to question every aspect of the deal. It is no different this time.

Additionally, I would look at the end user and the options available in this regard. IAF is more than happy as it sees tall promises by HAL but no deliveries of fighters.

Then comes the available options. There are none.

As far as capabilities go, there is no doubt about its capabilities. A skirmish over less than an hour can’t make Rafale an unworthy platform.

I am sure that as a professional you would vouch that 114 additional Rafales would pose a formidable challenge to any adversary.

At this point, Rafale appears the best option to shore up the numbers without adding a new type to the already diverse mix of platforms in the IAF.

 

[falcon34]

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Imagine getting 8 aircrafts knocked out shot in less than half an hour

 

[side-winder]

I am sure that as a professional you would vouch that 114 additional Rafales would pose a formidable challenge to any adversary.

Oh Yes. It poses one hell of a threat and makes the challenge to counter it, bigger manyfolds - it would destabilise the balance of power gravely. And i would be forced to take appropriate measures to return stability to this imbalance.

I am not endorsing this hatred for Rafales at all and any remarks of "impotent platform" coming from idiots. Infact, i expressed my happiness for this online compaign because it's good for us - i hope to see opposition doing their job and causing further delays in the programme as they have done earlier. Buys us the time to prepare and execute the plans to counter the threat.

At the end of the day, from the perspective of military strategy, what do i care if you buy a platform for 10 rupees or multiplied by further 10 to that - as a military commander, i care about the strength of the punch it adds, no matter the price it was paid for. Indian economy is much better than us, so i should be worried as required.

Yes, some of the other important purchases and growth of local industry would be sacrificed but at the end of the day, if IAF has gone for this deal without ToTs and source codes. They definitely aren't happy with the local industry and are certainly out of options And perhaps, i would rather want the IAF to decide otherwise. To keep hoping against the hope.

If this deal goes ahead - PAF would be forced to seriously start working on the acquisition of J-35s and additional J10s. An acquisition, induction and integration of a new platform is never easy. It takes time and effort. Especially difficult for us, because i don't have the luxuries of abundant amount of money and resources available at my disposal to have a smooth and painless induction of a new platform.

When IAF started taking delivery of 36 Rafales - PAF set things in motion on war-footing basis to fast track the delivery of J10s. Alot of people had to work really hard for bringing these brids home as soon as possible, inducting it, intergrating it and mastering it. All in very short span of time.

 

[ghazi52]

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[Areesh]

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Still there are millions and millions of clowns in India who think no Rafale was shot down and it is all a false narrative by Pakistan that somehow world has accepted

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Display of joy is hardly a criterion for a purchase like this. When the first batch of 36 was finalised there were similar instances on social media to question every aspect of the deal. It is no different this time.

Additionally, I would look at the end user and the options available in this regard. IAF is more than happy as it sees tall promises by HAL but no deliveries of fighters.

Then comes the available options. There are none.

As far as capabilities go, there is no doubt about its capabilities. A skirmish over less than an hour can’t make Rafale an unworthy platform.

I am sure that as a professional you would vouch that 114 additional Rafales would pose a formidable challenge to any adversary.

At this point, Rafale appears the best option to shore up the numbers without adding a new type to the already diverse mix of platforms in the IAF.

*pukes*

loads of words, without any depth or meaning

superficial reading and understanding of events

 

[NA71]

Indian Media is again on War rhetoric.....Indian Army chief ney zakham taza kar diyay janta kay......

 

[Vkdindian1]

Yes, some of the other important purchases and growth of local industry would be sacrificed but at the end of the day, if IAF has gone for this deal without ToTs and source codes. They definitely aren't happy with the local industry. And perhaps, i would rather want the IAF to decide otherwise. To keep hoping against the hope.

IAF is caught up in a unique situation. Purchase with source code is the best way to move forward. But, what if the seller isn’t keen on the source code but you still need that stuff badly.
French must have realised this dilemma. The source code availability is in any case to add your own weapons later on. IAF would have to be contended with adding those to SU-30s and Tejas as they keep getting inducted. We have Mirages that have done a wonderful service without source codes. Source codes is good to have but not really a deal breaker when one is in dire need of platforms.

There is a lot of discussion about cost of the deal. I am fully with the negotiating teams in this regard. They aren’t dumb and have full visibility on all the aspects. The cost includes long term support and life cycle costs that is being compared to unit cost of similar platforms. The lessons learnt from other big ticket purchases like the first batch of Rafales P8I and C17s is being applied to keep high availability at a reasonable cost.

Rahul Gandhi is a kid with no independent thinking skills and is guided by individuals who hold his hands and help him navigate politics. His shenanigans would fall by the wayside.

 

[side-winder]

IAF is caught up in a unique situation. Purchase with source code is the best way to move forward. But, what if the seller isn’t keen on the source code but you still need that stuff badly.
French must have realised this dilemma. The source code availability is in any case to add your own weapons later on. IAF would have to be contended with adding those to SU-30s and Tejas as they keep getting inducted. We have Mirages that have done a wonderful service without source codes. Source codes is good to have but not really a deal breaker when one is in dire need of platforms.

There is a lot of discussion about cost of the deal. I am fully with the negotiating teams in this regard. They aren’t dumb and have full visibility on all the aspects. The cost includes long term support and life cycle costs that is being compared to unit cost of similar platforms. The lessons learnt from other big ticket purchases like the first batch of Rafales P8I and C17s is being applied to keep high availability at a reasonable cost.

Rahul Gandhi is a kid with no independent thinking skills and is guided by individuals who hold his hands and help him navigate politics. His shenanigans would fall by the wayside.

Well, like i said, as a military commander - that's none of my concern - i would only care about the military capabilities being added which i would be forced to take appropriate measures for. If IAF doesn't have issues paying the french everytime they want to integrate a new weapon because they have sound economic resources at their back. Good for them - i still got worries in my share.

I am a happy man if the delays keep coming due to whatever reasons. Because it buys me more time to prepare.

So, i would support this "smear compaign" in my interests. Don't mind. Lol

 

[Vkdindian1]

Well, like i said, as a military commander - that's none of my concern - i would only care about the military capabilities being added which i would be forced to take appropriate measures for. If IAF doesn't have issues paying the french everytime they want to integrate a new weapon because they have sound economic resources at their back. Good for them - i still got worries in my share.

I am a happy man if the delays keep coming due to whatever reasons. Because it buys me more time to prepare.

So, i would support this "smear compaign" in my interests. Don't mind. Lol

Fully support your smear campaign.

 

[side-winder]

Fully support your smear campaign.

However, if i was an Indian - and the economy wasn't as good to rather easily bear the brunt of such expensive imports - and my airforce puts up a rather poor show with costly yet such a capable and "rightly" hyped platform. I would go all guns blazing at the commanders - Because the fault lied with them and not the platform.

 

[Vkdindian1]

However, if i was an Indian - and the economy wasn't as good to rather easily bear the brunt of such expensive imports - and my airforce puts up a rather poor show with costly yet such a capable and "rightly" hyped platform. I would go all guns blazing at the commanders - Because the fault lied with them and not the platform.

Yes it does. They didn’t integrate it well and should have done better.

But that is not good enough reason to deny the shortfall in numbers.

But, I still grant them faster pivot than their counterparts from across for what they did on 10th May. That still can’t take away the failure on 7th May.

I would still give them new toys and hope that they handle it better. Denying isn’t an option.

 

[side-winder]

Yes it does. They didn’t integrate it well and should have done better.

But that is not good enough reason to deny the shortfall in numbers.

But, I still grant them faster pivot than their counterparts from across for what they did on 10th May. That still can’t take away the failure on 7th May.

I would still give them new toys and hope that they handle it better. Denying isn’t an option.

Yes, they did learn and performed much better on 10th than the shitshow on 7th. But again, only a couple SCALPs coming from the Rafales which i paid massive cash for. Still relying on the old Su30s and ground launchers to do most of the job with Brahmos.

I still lost the air superiority and freedom to fly in my own airspace and totally gave up on air-air engagement part - all to a much smaller and poorer adversary.

But what if, the other side was also rich and had plenty of CM400s to throw at me without worrying about the reserves - i had no advantage left because i lost the tactics part already.

I would grill my air marshals for letting that happen.

 

[Vkdindian1]

But what if, the other side was also rich and had plenty of CM400s to throw at me without worrying about the reserves - i had no advantage left because i lost the tactics part already.

Actually there are a lots of “what ifs”. People from Pakistan would look at these “what ifs” from their perspective and I would look at them from mine.

Whatever could have happened is only a speculation at this time.

Both sides took decisions on those 3 days and would have to live with them. And also the lessons learnt.

CM400 is a formidable weapon. In big numbers it could have caused a lot of damage.

Wouldn’t that be true with Brahmos, Scalp and Rampage too? What if these were fired in hundreds and not 10s?

It didn’t happen and I am thankful to sane heads for deciding to stand down.

I would grant the tactics part on day one. Not after that.