Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[falcon34]

This is an excellent question and its answer lies in understanding that BVR range is not fixed. Meteor has the largest NEZ of around 60 km and its operational range is claimed to be 100 km. Though estimated range is 200km, its kill probability reduces drastically if target is at 150 km.

Simply put, PL-15 has an advantage over Meteor in a fight at the ranges we saw in Op Sindoor. Other factors like IAF complacency, system integration, PAF tactics of silent kill chain, pilot training for last 5 years focused on countering Meteor and S-400 etc also played an important role.

The Rafales shot down at lesser ranges were at lower altitudes. The J-10C pilots were waiting for HQ-9 to shine and Rafale pilots naturally descended to avoid SAM threat. At that exact moment, J-10 moved in for the kill when Meteor range was reduced by say 40-50 km due altitude. So it was a choreographed fight and should not be seen as just J-10's PL-15 vs Rafale's Meteor.

Can you like expand on tactics here what PAF was doing with HQ9 and J10C combo

 

[NA71]

Lo g aik aur aa gaya....not AI ....pure content

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[Ali_Baba]

That isnt happening but there are multiple iterations of seeker scanning, flight profiles etc. that are still unknown to IAF just as AIM-120C is still "unknown" to them.
In the recent AFM interview the current COAS did say it best to Alan warnes - there was no interaction(which isnt "true) with Qatari or other friendly air forces on Rafale because they dont employ it the way India does. The same way spending time with Israelis on AMRAAM wont help India that much because PAF still has a different way of employing them.

I don't buy the "we did not take a look at Qatari Rafales" story at all. You will always to gather as much intelligence about the raw performance of the platform, and use that to model how you think you opponent could employ them and therefore what capabilities you may see within that employment model.

The AFM may well look to spare the blushes of Qatar, but he will have made sure his specialists went over the Rafale as much as they could get away with and what Qatar would have allowed.

 

[RescueRanger]

Lo g aik aur aa gaya....not AI ....pure content

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"If you keep your friends close, and your enemies closer... you can make your enemy sleepless at night."

- Sun Tzu


I know haters are going to hate on my post - but Pakistan Army Zindabad!

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Hello sir,
I have read that s400 has a variant of missile that is for ssm role. so hq9 catching some is good that means our aa systems catch wide variety of missiles. Even sam missiles.

keen observation, well noted!

 

[kimjongun]

keen observation, well noted!

S300 had an ssm role to but its accuracy was poor it was said to be deovpoed by the ussr to use the large stocks of AD missiles as cheaper SSMs

 

[AeronautIR]

Can you like expand on tactics here what PAF was doing with HQ9 and J10C combo

The Multi-Domain Operations included EW, IADS, GBADs, cyber etc. So initially, HQ-9 was off, J-10 at a farther range and only Electronic attacks to disrupt the incoming raid. At a precise moment, HQ-9 radar was going to lock the package in IOK. Expecting them to take defensive action, J-10 went in hot without worrying about Meteor at that exact time.

You can see the kill difference between the Punjab and Kashmir packages. Just 1 Rafale in Bhatinda, rest all up North. With Meteor and S-400, it wasn't that simple in the South.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

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[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

S300 had an ssm role to but its accuracy was poor it was said to be deovpoed by the ussr to use the large stocks of AD missiles as cheaper SSMs

you missed the trick!

hint: missile speed tracking!

 

[Gripen9]

The Multi-Domain Operations included EW, IADS, GBADs, cyber etc. So initially, HQ-9 was off, J-10 at a farther range and only Electronic attacks to disrupt the incoming raid. At a precise moment, HQ-9 radar was going to lock the package in IOK. Expecting them to take defensive action, J-10 went in hot without worrying about Meteor at that exact time.

You can see the kill difference between the Punjab and Kashmir packages. Just 1 Rafale in Bhatinda, rest all up North. With Meteor and S-400, it wasn't that simple in the South.

Was the S400 at Adampur neutralized on the 7th while the air battle was ongoing or targeted on 10th?

 

[falcon34]

The Multi-Domain Operations included EW, IADS, GBADs, cyber etc. So initially, HQ-9 was off, J-10 at a farther range and only Electronic attacks to disrupt the incoming raid. At a precise moment, HQ-9 radar was going to lock the package in IOK. Expecting them to take defensive action, J-10 went in hot without worrying about Meteor at that exact time.

You can see the kill difference between the Punjab and Kashmir packages. Just 1 Rafale in Bhatinda, rest all up North. With Meteor and S-400, it wasn't that simple in the South.

Can our AWACS guide HQ9 missiles like they did for PL15?.

 

[AeronautIR]

Was the S400 at Adampur neutralized on the 7th while the air battle was ongoing or targeted on 10th?

EW on 7th against S-400, kinetic weapons on 10th... if Indians would have used it, most probably it would have resulted in a fratricide like Mi-17 by SPYDER in 2019... without accurate IFF and complete networking, it was a 50/50 chance that S-400 will shoot down a friendly due to degrded SA.

 

[AeronautIR]

Can our AWACS guide HQ9 missiles like they did for PL15?.

No idea about that.

 

[falcon34]

EW on 7th against S-400, kinetic weapons on 10th... if Indians would have used it, most probably it would have resulted in a fratricide like Mi-17 by SPYDER in 2019... without accurate IFF and complete networking, it was a 50/50 chance that S-400 will shoot down a friendly due to degrded SA.

And how many jets, I'ved heard different figures, some say like 10 aircrafts were hit that's mostly the PA guys and some civilians I know they've even put the number above 15+.
One thing I know for sure is around 20-30 missile were fired

 

[AeronautIR]

And how many jets, I'ved heard different figures, some say like 10 aircrafts were hit that's mostly the PA guys and some civilians I know they've even put the number above 15+.
One thing I know for sure is around 20-30 missile were fired

5 Rafale were hit to my knowledg. 3 crashed, 4th has been written off and 5th may or may not get repaired. I don't know the exact number of missiles fired but it is obvious that its more than the kills.
My guess is less than 20, around 14-16. But maybe you are right. Even without a kill, a launch at high ranges will ensure that adversary is on defensive and will not get a shot. The ROE was "Assure kill, deny own loss"