Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[Jango007]

Which side was he fighting for?

Saudi armed forces … he was in the officers Corp.

 

[falcon34]

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[falcon34]

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This was our strength irrationality and being unpredictable.
But some duffers learned the word restraint and fucked everything up

 

[Baibers_1260]

Let’s also look at what Munir gained in all this. Before May 25, Munir was most reviled and hated person on this forum. Not even one person was standing in his support. Look at where he is now. One extra star, FM for life, CDF and complete control of Pakistan

After India's spectacular victory in Operation Sindoor, May 6-10th 2025, why wasn't CDS Lt, Gen Anil Chauhan promoted to Field Marshal?
In a similar spectacular victory over Pakistan in 1971, Lt. General Sam Manekshaw was promoted to Field Marshal.

 

[Oscar]

@arjunk
I am not sure if continuing to fight a vicious enemy carrying out horrific atrocities on our population can be termed fanatical . The choice to fight on, even if its a losing battle is not ours to make, We can choose to submit and die in the largest holocaust known to human history or we can fight and perish with some cost to the enemy.


I wouldn't term patriotic Pakistani officers fighting for their land as "radical" and youth resisting a vicious enemy occupation and de-population holocaust as "jihadi-curious ". Our enemy has ensured that this war has morphed into one that is no longer merely a territorial dispute but is essentially religious in nature. We never wanted it that way and had put our faith in negotiations or arbitration via secular international bodies, such as the United Nations and the International Court of Justice. Our enemy has never respected international treaties or the UN Charter and with its overwhelming military superiority wishes to occupy and annex our land and exterminate our people. In its desire to reconstruct an ancient religious empire it wants our land without its people.
Our choice is to go "quietly into the night " ( the famous quote from the movie Independence Day ) or to use Winston Churchill's famous phrase "fight on and never surrender ". There is nothing radical or jihadi about resistance to savagery.

A nation doesn't always succumb to foreign aggression and savagery simply because its armed forces or establishment have been compromised or defeated in conventional warfare. There are many examples of people of a nation fighting on with horrific losses . The people of China battled Japanese aggression, a civil war and foreign intervention simultaneously for decades before finally securing their land in 1949. The death toll has never been properly accounted for but is estimated to be around 30 million.

Coming to a nuclear scenario, a preemptive nuclear de-capitation strike by the enemy is far more likely than a last ditch response to an impending defeat by our nation.
The reasons are given in the post below.

Post in thread 'Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion'
https://defencepk.com/forums/thread...ews-updates-and-discussion.21640/post-1113249

I never made that assertion - please read the context before constructing a reply.
the context was that Pakistanis will all be willing to fight because they have demonstrated the ability to create radical elements.

Your argument confuses the rhetoric of the Pakistani state and its military establishment with the sentiments of its people. This conflation collapses a complex nation into a single, militant identity that does not reflect social reality. The idea that Pakistan’s population stands united in a religious or existential war against India belongs more to official propaganda than to everyday life in the country.

Empirical evidence provides a clear counterpoint. Surveys conducted by Pew , Gallup , and other institutions consistently reveal that most Pakistanis prioritize economic security, education, and personal safety rather than confrontation with India. Support for extremist movements has fallen for years as ordinary citizens have suffered from attacks and instability rooted in the very militarization you describe as patriotic resistance. If one listens to voices from urban professionals, rural farmers, and women’s movements, a different picture emerges: a people yearning for basic maslow's pyramid, not a holy war.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

I never made that assertion - please read the context before constructing a reply.
the context was that Pakistanis will all be willing to fight because they have demonstrated the ability to create radical elements.

Your argument confuses the rhetoric of the Pakistani state and its military establishment with the sentiments of its people. This conflation collapses a complex nation into a single, militant identity that does not reflect social reality. The idea that Pakistan’s population stands united in a religious or existential war against India belongs more to official propaganda than to everyday life in the country.

Empirical evidence provides a clear counterpoint. Surveys conducted by Pew , Gallup , and other institutions consistently reveal that most Pakistanis prioritize economic security, education, and personal safety rather than confrontation with India. Support for extremist movements has fallen for years as ordinary citizens have suffered from attacks and instability rooted in the very militarization you describe as patriotic resistance. If one listens to voices from urban professionals, rural farmers, and women’s movements, a different picture emerges: a people yearning for basic maslow's pyramid, not a holy war.

no, it is the Ukraine war, Covid, incompetence and inflation.

in other words, your diagnosis does not look appropraite

 

[Oscar]

sir, TBH, that is exactly why more domains of war were established!

and, no, I dont agree..

and, it has been done before!

The idea that Pakistanis are collectively mobilized across “domains of war” against India assumes a level of national integration and ideological uniformity that simply does not exist. This is a military term, not the lived priorities of Pakistan’s 240 million people.

 

[Oscar]

no, it is the Ukraine war, Covid, incompetence and inflation.

in other words, your diagnosis does not look appropraite

Covid and the Ukraine war exacerbated hardship, but they did not create the conditions under which Pakistanis began reassessing the cost of endless hostility. That reassessment stems from internal contradictions in governance and a growing awareness that militarism, not external threats, is the enduring obstacle to national development.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Covid and the Ukraine war exacerbated hardship, but they did not create the conditions under which Pakistanis began reassessing the cost of endless hostility. That reassessment stems from internal contradictions in governance and a growing awareness that militarism, not external threats, is the enduring obstacle to national development.

they did!

during Covid, inflation jumped to 20% in a month!

and in March to Sept. 2022, fuel prices went off the charts!

so, in that regard, your diagnosis is not appropriate.

in other words, you are denying possibility which already exists

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

The idea that Pakistanis are collectively mobilized across “domains of war” against India assumes a level of national integration and ideological uniformity that simply does not exist. This is a military term, not the lived priorities of Pakistan’s 240 million people.

yes, too much bravado!

and that also means, we are over looking, room for foreign agents to sneak through

 

[Oscar]

they did!

during Covid, inflation jumped to 20% in a month!

and in March to Sept. 2022, fuel prices went off the charts!

so, in that regard, your diagnosis is not appropriate.

in other words, you are denying possibility which already exists

Covid and fuel prices didn’t invent Pakistan’s problems. They just exposed them. The rot began long before 2020 and comes from inside the system, not from oil markets or lockdowns.

 

[flyingorca]

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The most expensive fireworks of 2025! Btw, some people were saying Rafale was dispensing flares but those are just Rafale breaking apart.

 

[Baibers_1260]

I never made that assertion - please read the context before constructing a reply.
the context was that Pakistanis will all be willing to fight because they have demonstrated the ability to create radical elements.

Its not radical elements that fight and win against foreign aggression and occupation. It is secular and patriotic elements of the population that lead any liberation struggle. In fact quite the reverse, radical elements end up dividing the population and making their nation far weaker. A good example is Algeria which drove out French colonialism.

Your argument confuses the rhetoric of the Pakistani state and its military establishment with the sentiments of its people

What are the sentiments of the people towards an inevitable defeat and annexation by India ? Could you elaborate?

. This conflation collapses a complex nation into a single, militant identity that does not reflect social reality. The idea that Pakistan’s population stands united in a religious or existential war against India belongs more to official propaganda than to everyday life in the country.

A very interesting line of thinking, So how do the people of Pakistan view the wars between India and Pakistan? Is it just a fight between their army and a "liberation " effort by India to rid them of martial law? Are the people of Pakistan looking forward to the end when they will all become Indian citizens in a vibrant diverse democratic "$4 trillion " economy ? There is a precedent when our erstwhile citizens of East Pakistan welcomed the Indian Army as liberators and the popular sentiment was to accede to India to merge with their cultural cousins in West Bengal. The East Pakistan Civil war was a secular war not religious. So what happened there? Why didn't Bangladesh merge with India like Sikkim and Goa ?

Empirical evidence provides a clear counterpoint. Surveys conducted by Pew , Gallup , and other institutions consistently reveal that most Pakistanis prioritize economic security, education, and personal safety rather than confrontation with India.

Agreed those are priorities.
Will an annexation by India provide economic security, education, and personal safety to the people of Pakistan when they become Indian Muslims?
Is there a Gallup or Pew poll on how Indian Muslims feel about their economic security, education opportunities, and personal safety?

Support for extremist movements has fallen for years as ordinary citizens have suffered from attacks and instability rooted in the very militarization you describe as patriotic resistance. If one listens to voices from urban professionals, rural farmers, and women’s movements, a different picture emerges: a people yearning for basic maslow's pyramid, not a holy war.

Interesting observation. A few more questions.

1. Is resistance to annexation a "Holy War " ?
2. Would the urban professionals of Karachi be able to find jobs, or accommodation in Mumbai ?
3. Would the people of Pakistan once annexed by India be able to eat what they want or when they want?
4. Is there a matching "Maslow's Pyramid " amongst the urban professionals of India ?

If a secular democratic diverse, inequality free socially balanced, female empowered India can invade, liberate and absorb Pakistan and put its urban professionals in the high income group of its famous "$4 trillion " economy, I would be one of those amongst the millions welcoming the Vishwaguru with rose petals showers as he rides a T-90 Bhishma tank down Islamabad's Constitution Avenue to plant the tricolor on the National Assembly building . I do hope I will be served kababs made of my preferred meat at the celebratory banquet. I WON'T compromise on that.

 

[Oscar]

Its not radical elements that fight and win against foreign aggression and occupation. It is secular and patriotic elements of the population that lead any liberation struggle. In fact quite the reverse, radical elements end up dividing the population and making their nation far weaker. A good example is Algeria which drove out French colonialism.

What are the sentiments of the people towards an inevitable defeat and annexation by India ? Could you elaborate?

A very interesting line of thinking, So how do the people of Pakistan view the wars between India and Pakistan? Is it just a fight between their army and a "liberation " effort by India to rid them of martial law? Are the people of Pakistan looking forward to the end when they will all become Indian citizens in a vibrant diverse democratic "$4 trillion " economy ? There is a precedent when our erstwhile citizens of East Pakistan welcomed the Indian Army as liberators and the popular sentiment was to accede to India to merge with their cultural cousins in West Bengal. The East Pakistan Civil war was a secular war not religious. So what happened there? Why didn't Bangladesh merge with India like Sikkim and Goa ?

Agreed those are priorities.
Will an annexation by India provide economic security, education, and personal safety to the people of Pakistan when they become Indian Muslims?
Is there a Gallup or Pew poll on how Indian Muslims feel about their economic security, education opportunities, and personal safety?

Interesting observation. A few more questions.

1. Is resistance to annexation a "Holy War " ?
2. Would the urban professionals of Karachi be able to find jobs, or accommodation in Mumbai ?
3. Would the people of Pakistan once annexed by India be able to eat what they want or when they want?
4. Is there a matching "Maslow's Pyramid " amongst the urban professionals of India ?

If a secular democratic diverse, inequality free socially balanced, female empowered India can invade, liberate and absorb Pakistan and put its urban professionals in the high income group of its famous "$4 trillion " economy, I would be one of those welcoming the Vishwaguru with rose petals showers as he rides a T-90 Bhishma tank down Constitution Avenue. I do hope I will be served kababs made of my preferred meat at the celebratory banquet.

This only stands true if the people feel enfranchised by the nation. Your assumption that there is some massive secular support to grab guns and fight is again a military fantasy and not realitiy.

The assumption that Pakistanis would view an Indian invasion as liberation misunderstands both history and current reality. There is no broad desire to “merge” with India, only a deep fatigue with internal dysfunction. Today’s Pakistan is fragmented by economic crisis and ethnic divides, not united under martial law or waiting for outside salvation. If such a war ever occurred, most citizens would likely retreat into apathy or self-preservation rather than mount a patriotic defense or welcome invaders. The comparison to 1971 ignores how much social trust has eroded since then and how different the political consciousness of present-day Pakistanis has become.
Trying to compare Indian Muslims to this alleged invasion is whataboutism to try and shifts from “what do Pakistanis want” to “are Indian Muslims perfectly secure,” which does nothing to prove that Pakistanis secretly desire annexation or endless war. Even if Indian Muslims face discrimination and structural barriers, that reality does not turn 240 million Pakistanis into willing candidates for absorption into another state. The core issue remains that most Pakistanis are preoccupied with inflation, jobs, security and ethnic fault lines inside their own country, not with a hypothetical upgrade to Indian citizenship. Pointing to Indian Muslims is a diversion from answering what Pakistanis themselves actually think or need.
Your questions echo the same whataboutism by deflecting from Pakistani realities to hypothetical Indian ones. Urban professionals in Karachi already struggle with jobs and housing amid local collapse, not because of annexation dreams but due to internal mismanagement they endure daily. Food access for Pakistanis hinges on economic rot and supply failures within their borders, not some Maslow-scale comparison to India. Resistance here is not holy war but basic apathy born of exhaustion, not devotion. This sidesteps the point: Pakistanis prioritize survival over either endless conflict or foreign absorption.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Hi, the Indian population has unfortunately bought this narrative from their media. Moreover, they cannot fathom that their airplanes were shot down. I have mentioned before in other posts, some of my brother's colleagues have asked him how relatives back home are coping with radiation leakage for the Indian strike at Margala Hills... LOL!

Getting back on topic, if any Erieye, or F-16 had been downed in the May conflict it would have been all over the news. Literally, how can someone hide an AWACS being shot down? Like seriously? Do you know how much wreckage would be strewn all over the place? Even if it burned in a hanger, word would get out.

Lastly, how could you cover up all the supposed number of F16s shot down? It would be impossible.

Apart from india, the WHOLE world knows that india militarily lost to Pakistan in operation sindoor. Doesn't matter what india and indians think. They are not important.