Pakistan Missiles - Updates, News & Discussion

[Bentley777]

Iran only focused on its missiles for years which is in large numbers still got intercepted to nearly 70 percent to latest air defense system. Pak focus is on Air force but pak needs a supersonic cruise missiles and hypersonic missiles surely because our stock are surely are not at level of iran.

 

[arjunk]

Iran only focused on its missiles for years which is in large numbers still got intercepted to nearly 70 percent to latest air defense system. Pak focus is on Air force but pak needs a supersonic cruise missiles and hypersonic missiles surely because our stock are surely are not at level of iran.

Pakistani/NATO/Israel doctrine and Indian/Russian/Iranian doctrines are entirely different.

The latter owing to numerical superiority rely mostly on Air defence and missile salvos, the former relies on air force for strikes.

If Iranians were less incompetent they could've dealt massive damage to Israel.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

I think Pakistan should consider the following urgently:

— A new generation of strategic [nuclear] missiles with a greater focus on penetration ability. Learning from Iran-Israel missile strikes.

— Assessing our second-strike capability in the event of a decapitation strike. (Effectively, a ballistic missile submarine will be needed for this truly)

— Assessing our command, control, storage and launch parameters, and their survivability.

 

[Oscar]

I think Pakistan should consider the following urgently:

— A new generation of strategic [nuclear] missiles with a greater focus on penetration ability. Learning from Iran-Israel missile strikes.

— Assessing our second-strike capability in the event of a decapitation strike. (Effectively, a ballistic missile submarine will be needed for this truly)

— Assessing our command, control, storage and launch parameters, and their survivability.

1. Exists in smaller numbers

2. Exists but not in most efficient form

3. Button pushers are the weakest link - otherwise system is fairly robust and secure.
No guarantee that a decision to push the button will ever be made even in case of detonations on Pakistani soil.

4. Seperation of second phase warheads from launch platforms means gap between available and operational nukes. Perhaps to ratio less than Indias even if token more nukes available. Canizerization initiatives put on back burner at potentially contrived decisions made by partially compromised individuals

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

If we have the need to respond to israel aggression. what options we have? Beside Shaheen 3, we have no other missile that can reach israel? Number of shaheen 3 will also be under 100 which is not enough? also shaheen 3 has a known ballistic projectile path that can be easily intercepted at terminal stage? We really need missiles which will be difficult to intercept and must reach israel and that too in large number. we need to start now. also for india we need to make missiles that cannot be easily intercepted. we must also look for cheap solution for that we need the complete 100% production to be in pakistan and that too should produce fast? Guys we need to discuss this

 

[Rational Philosopher]

1. Exists in smaller numbers

2. Exists but not in most efficient form

3. Button pushers are the weakest link - otherwise system is fairly robust and secure.
No guarantee that a decision to push the button will ever be made even in case of detonations on Pakistani soil.

4. Seperation of second phase warheads from launch platforms means gap between available and operational nukes. Perhaps to ratio less than Indias even if token more nukes available. Canizerization initiatives put on back burner at potentially contrived decisions made by partially compromised individuals

1. Are you referring to something more advanced and a new design separate to the Shaheen (2/3) missiles, or rather iteratively improved models that haven't been mentioned publicly?

2. Are you referring to simply a rudimentary SLCM second strike and not a proper SSBN in terms of 'not the most efficient'?

3. Is this issue with no guarantee of someone pushing the button a Pakistan-specific problem (fear of compromised individuals, or psychological block) or a general issue in every structure?

4. Compromised individuals is not a good sign. Especially not the level of infiltration witnessed in Iran. Does not look good.

 

[S.Y.A]

15m CEP is still high enough to miss the ttargets. A faster F1 with a CEP of under 5m would have damaged Indian airbase had enough of these reached their targets.

this means that research in control systems engineering needs to be a focus of nescom etc.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

@Tariq Habib Afridi | Shaheen 3 is a nuclear exclusive strategic deterrence missile, it won't be used in massive salvo type barrages like you saw in Iran for tactical strikes. Just enough are [planned, or in existence] to just deliver nuclear warheads at Indian cities. This is why I believe not a large number are built and they don't have control fins warheads, as they don't need accurate CEP or tons of hits. This is my educated guess.

The conventional missiles for tactical strikes is the Fatah series under development. Fatah 3 & 4 under development with 450km and 700km range respectively. Perhaps longer ranged in the pipeline and with more accuracy (MaRV, HGV?). It does seem Pakistan ignored conventional missiles for some reason. Only close range munitions.

 

[Psyko70]

If we have the need to respond to israel aggression. what options we have? Beside Shaheen 3, we have no other missile that can reach israel? Number of shaheen 3 will also be under 100 which is not enough? also shaheen 3 has a known ballistic projectile path that can be easily intercepted at terminal stage? We really need missiles which will be difficult to intercept and must reach israel and that too in large number. we need to start now. also for india we need to make missiles that cannot be easily intercepted. we must also look for cheap solution for that we need the complete 100% production to be in pakistan and that too should produce fast? Guys we need to discuss this

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known ballistic path ? as far as I know Shaheen 3 is our latest missile with great speed and guidance system.

After 2015 test of Shaheen 3, new variations came with better design parameters and validations were made to it in 2021 and then again 2022 as it needed further enhancement.

They also have added trhusters for Post-Separation Altitude Correction. However, evasion from ABMs is secondary feature of these thrusters.

 

[Falcon26]

known ballistic path ? as far as I know Shaheen 3 is our latest missile with great speed and guidance system.

After 2015 test of Shaheen 3, new variations came with better design parameters and validations were made to it in 2021 and then again 2022 as it needed further enhancement.

Still garbage and susceptible to interceptions, as we saw in the Iran-Israel conflict. Iranian missiles are magnitudes more advanced than Pakistan’s and they are getting knocked out of the sky at almost 80%

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

known ballistic path ? as far as I know Shaheen 3 is our latest missile with great speed and guidance system.

After 2015 test of Shaheen 3, new variations came with better design parameters and validations were made to it in 2021 and then again 2022 as it needed further enhancement.

Apology for my ignorance. I dont know much about shaheen 3 path or technology but i think it is still easy to be intercepted especially at terminal stage? and about numbers i dont think we would have more than 100 by now? so my question again is we need missiles for israel aggression that cannot be easily intercepted and that must be in large number so we can do the maximum damage to them and we wont have much time israel after iran will quickly rearm and be ready to target pakistan this time?

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

@Tariq Habib Afridi | Shaheen 3 is a nuclear exclusive strategic deterrence missile, it won't be used in massive salvo type barrages like you saw in Iran for tactical strikes. Just enough are [planned, or in existence] to just deliver nuclear warheads at Indian cities. This is why I believe not a large number are built and they don't have control fins warheads, as they don't need accurate CEP or tons of hits. This is my educated guess.

The conventional missiles for tactical strikes is the Fatah series under development. Fatah 3 & 4 under development with 450km and 700km range respectively. Perhaps longer ranged in the pipeline and with more accuracy (MaRV, HGV?). It does seem Pakistan ignored conventional missiles for some reason. Only close range munitions.

If so then pakistan must also work for conventional missiles targetting israel too.

 

[Psyko70]

Apology for my ignorance. I dont know much about shaheen 3 path or technology but i think it is still easy to be intercepted especially at terminal stage? and about numbers i dont think we would have more than 100 by now? so my question again is we need missiles for israel aggression that cannot be easily intercepted and that must be in large number so we can do the maximum damage to them and we wont have much time israel after iran will quickly rearm and be ready to target pakistan this time?

Then an Indian scenario could be same too. I believe Fatah 1 also did good. its just that since 2008 when I was in defence.pk and now here, I have seen we have tendency to understate our capabilities.

Shaheen 3 has hi initial and mid course velocity and then in terminal speed re-entry into atmosphere it has same or better speed then the iranian fast missile shown in videos that is not being intercepted.

Shaheen 3 was designed to target India in mind where reaction time for India will be less.

 

[Psyko70]

Still garbage and susceptible to interceptions, as we saw in the Iran-Israel conflict. Iranian missiles are magnitudes more advanced than Pakistan’s and they are getting knocked out of the sky at almost 80%

Garbage is overstatement Iranian latest missiles are not getting knocked out. there latest are not being shot down the one with great speed are having successful attacks only missiles that are slow in terminal stage are being knocked out. Iranian missiles CEP is big issue while Pakistani missiles have better CEP issues even for nukes where its not a big issue.

Shahab 3 has in 500 to 1.5 km CEP while shaheen 2 has < 350m and Shaheen having greater range of atleast double has 500m max.

Sejjil is has very less CEP but Sejjil 2 and 3 is debatable as there ranges increase. Problem is CEP in case of Pak is not issue as Nuclear missiles dont need.

However,

Shaheen 3 is has good terminal speed as well. Otherwise give me good reason why they are garbage. I am open to discussion, dont mean any disrespect.

What we really lack is IRBM with Conventional warhead and CEP less 100m.

 

[S.Y.A]

Still garbage and susceptible to interceptions, as we saw in the Iran-Israel conflict. Iranian missiles are magnitudes more advanced than Pakistan’s and they are getting knocked out of the sky at almost 80%

you obviously have access to the design parameters of both missiles to pronounce this judgement.