Pakistan Rocket Force Command News and Discussions

You are spot on IMHO.

Let me discuss further in the context of the following post:

Actually I have a more optimistic outlook. I think this is an opportunity. Yes, many things are smuggled but even offloading the construction of the aerostructure to a private company is a good step because this creates at least one factory with 200 jobs maybe. Once this factory is up and running and sees that the actuator that it uses is $5000 to smuggle it'll spend some of its profits to do R&D to develop a local line for the actuator. At first this actuator will barely meet spec but eventually be good enough to replace the import. This isn't fantasy, I know that this has happened several times at Millat tractors. So the reason that it doesn't happen in defense production is because of the stifled environment.

There is a certain level of government protectionism of local private sector in what I'm proposing. Again, this is not unprecedented as Pakistan does this for sugar mills for example. Slightly better examples are the Chaebols of South Korea and Space X, whose initial growth was only possible through government help.

This is essentially how you build industries IMHO. @Quwa can speak on this much better than I can.
This is just my perception, but I get a sense that a lot of our budget ends up sustaining overhead like facilities, wages, and pensions, and a lot of that is under-utilized. For ex., I don't think HIT and PAC are running around the clock with all slots being used. As a result, the public exchequer ends up subsidizing unused capacity.

In big part, that capacity also gets underused because the armed forces requirements have moved on from the older things those previously built capacities were designed for. So, we either have to spend in upgrading them (adding to sunk costs) or, basically, move on entirely (e.g., remember AK?)

IMO, this problem stems from the fact that the armed forces don't want to offload serial production work to the private sector. Okay, I get it, the private sector isn't at the point to take on that work at the moment, but how can they when there was hardly incentive nor free pathway (much less support) to build that capacity in the first place.

The private sector can take on the costs of building and upgrading production lines for each new requirement. Sure, they'll pass on those costs by baking it into the price of the stuff they sell, but that's where we'd want to bank on our local currency, labour costs, or material costs to ensure those prices stay lower than equivalent imports.

The benefit, however, is that we lift arguably some of the biggest cost centres off the hands of the SOEs like NESCOM/SPD, freeing them to invest more on the R&D side of the equation. They can spend on the labs, instrumentation, projects, and, most importantly, the scientists and engineers rather than managing production.

So, this necessitates a policy where armed forces munitions orders, for example, must -- by design -- involve the private sector. SPD can design the munitions and their inputs, and the private sector handles the work of manufacturing it at scale. Obviously, things can be pushed even further with the private sector getting incentivized into developing their own tooling and other infrastructure, enabling them to both localize and compete across other markets.

If that aspect succeeds, then we generate high-value exports on one end, and save on imports of machining and factory equipment on the other. With a local machining and tooling base, Pakistanis may invest in manufacturing more broadly and push us into things like auto/EVs, appliances, etc.

However, for this to be worthwhile for the private sector, they need to know that they'll get orders from both the armed forces and foreign markets. Thus, security regulations and controls also need to be streamlined, heavily, so "scorty" doesn't derail momentum and create unnecessary friction.

And, of course, we need our fiscal exchequer to get healthy as well. We've beaten the main tax sources today -- middle class wage earners and manufacturing -- to death with taxes, harming our exports on one end and driving skilled workers out to the Gulf and the West on the other. The rent-seekers, like big agriculture and big retail (esp the ones who import goods) need to get taxed as well. This helps us increase our defence spending alongside other areas (esp. education) to fuel the stuff talked about above.

But this is all a tall ask for leaders who are basically thumbs for butts.
 
Oh I am not at all suggesting that industrialization for Pakistan means making everything indigenously. I am quite aware of our limitations and no one can hope to match China's industry. What I mean by industrial capacity is the ability to produce let's say 30 cruise missiles per year. I really don't care where the inputs are coming from as long as they are reliable enough for the line to keep running. And from what I know of our capacity we are design heavy and production light. Our SOEs have very limited ability to mass produce advanced munitions. Places like Qaswa are half measures to try to fix this deficiency in fact.
I understand that some of my views may offend Pakistani friends.

Regarding Pakistan's defense industry, I oppose broad expansion without deep development. Pakistan's overall situation is not suitable for comprehensive defense industry independence.
The models of some European countries are very worthy of Pakistan's reference. They specialize in specific areas, concentrating their national resources to achieve world-class levels in those areas. This allows them to integrate with and counterbalance powerful countries. However, they choose to abandon broader areas.
For example, Switzerland's precision industry and Germany's mechanical engineering industry. Even the United States relies heavily on them.

For example, between China and Pakistan, Pakistan could choose copper as a bond.
China is severely short of copper, while Pakistan is rich in copper ore.
Thus, Pakistan could invest in the deep processing of copper metal and the development of industrial/military copper products, rather than simply selling copper resources as it currently does.
I'm using copper mining as an example. Of course, the Pakistani government could choose to invest deeply in other industries based on its own circumstances, bringing them to world-class levels and gradually expanding its influence.
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@Michael what is this people are saying its new hypersonic missile of PLA will be showcased on sep 3 in parade what are specs any idea??
Specific details will have to wait until the official announcement on September 3rd.
I can only offer some simple analysis based on the images and my very limited knowledge, for reference only.

1. Judging from its appearance, it's likely an air-breathing hypersonic cruise missile. The first stage is a solid rocket motor, propelling the missile to the appropriate altitude and speed. The second stage is a scramjet engine, propelling the missile at hypersonic speeds.

2. The use of a trailer truck for display indicates it's not a land-based launch vehicle. However, Navy and Air Force missiles typically use trailers in military-specific camouflage patterns. Therefore, I'm unsure of its launch platform.
 
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Bhai a whole new command structure ban gaya ...app keh rahay hein "nothing new"..... thurra wait karein ....
my question stands,
what will this new Rocket Force Command do, what ASFC is not already doing?
 
To learn about how the PLARF works or about the chinese missile industry works there are two reports by CASI(an american DoD org)......sorry the second report is too big to add...
 

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my question stands,
what will this new Rocket Force Command do, what ASFC is not already doing?
1 major thing. Chain of Command. No need to run phone line up many rungs of ladder to get ASFC Leadership to launch a precision non-nuclear strike.
Decision making will be at Division Level.
 
India also had to rely on missile force to deliver a devastating final blow to Pakistan.
They lost 3-4 jets in conventional bombing and resorted to missile attack.
Pakistan is just following the Indian footsteps.Granted it was Pakistan who opened the pandora box of missile attack (F1 attack) , but now we know the true capabilities of Indian Missile Force and adapting accordingly.
Only ‘devastating blow’ in this conflict was IAF getting so many of its best jets shot down including Ra-fail without apparently even getting a shot off.
 
this roacket forace sounds like an ego massage more than anything tactical or strategic.
 
Imagine if we grow the Rocket Force into an entire branch of the army, same size as say artillery or armoured corps. Would reflect the importance of missiles in warfare now
one major purpose/objective for this rocket force is to be the spearhead of offensive response. Always ready to strike on a massive scale on a very short notice. A cold start on steroids.
 
Only ‘devastating blow’ in this conflict was IAF getting so many of its best jets shot down including Ra-fail without apparently even getting a shot off.
them damaging our AWE&CS and one missile landing in vicinity of one C-130 was pretty close one
 
The conversation is spiraling into a comatose irrelevance. A whole lot of nothingness...
Irrespective of current technology, industrial base or stocks... which emanate FROM this point.
For all gung ho on rocket science behind these and impossibility of achievement... lesser states have achieved greater... because they took the initiative.
If Pakistan so desired and this was the only saving grace that this will become a cottage industry... parts being made in local shops for haven sakes! In parallel universe a tulip mania... but a lot more consequential!

India can NEVER achieve in BMD what zion did... simply because of spacial insignificance of zion. The number of interceptors available per launch and number of states providing their services. In fact, it is an exercise in futility. The Chinese already possess salvos with speeds, maneuverability and accuracy that Indian pursuit seems more politically driven than practical... it also maybe driven to draw Pakistan in an arms race ... an economic hit rather than practical defensive solution. Second, it could be for a short term but devastating war and saving/salvaging as much as possible in the duel. If that, than I'd assume it to be around the next election cycle.
However, as the orange clown returned with his empty hand... he may want to use India as a piñata to gain some optics unless India caves. All in, this was a good move... one which ruffled some feathers and wrench in calculus.
 
I hope the force picks up the DF-100 for the SLBM role. I know the force is oriented towards non-nuclear strike primarily, but while this force is being built, I assume it will also have a role to work along side the SPD. Even three Hangors with 12 DF-100 (2000km range, and with a diameter small enough to be carried in rows of two) each can hold most of India in check from Pakistani coastal waters. With spares, a stockpile of 48 nuclear DF-100 and 48 conventional DF-100 missiles can hold much of India in check.
 
private sector

The whole purpose of private enterprise is to get a job done at least amount, highest quality and redundancy. The onus of innovation and obsolescence rests in private hands. If and when too heavy, jettisoned. The idea of how the proceeds are divvied up is significant yet secondary importance to what is being sought. The commercial utility of same can later be utilized in products of civilian use...
The fact that state doesn't plan to invest in its own or for general prosperity is a different topic altogether. For those who understand fiat or how it was employed to build Pakistans nuclear program know it's utility and application.
 
Don't know if this is AI using Pier's Morgan's voice but the presentation is still very good.

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I hope the force picks up the DF-100 for the SLBM role. I know the force is oriented towards non-nuclear strike primarily, but while this force is being built, I assume it will also have a role to work along side the SPD. Even three Hangors with 12 DF-100 (2000km range, and with a diameter small enough to be carried in rows of two) each can hold most of India in check from Pakistani coastal waters. With spares, a stockpile of 48 nuclear DF-100 and 48 conventional DF-100 missiles can hold much of India in check.
PLA has dumped the DF-100, only few units equipped with it and I think the production has stopped.
 

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