Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion

[LeGenD]

I have been following blogspace today over this development. There is certainly much joy in the Pakistani analysts/blogspace over this development and no joy in India over this; even a Godi Media anchor presented this as a news without passing too many judgement or tried to cope hard.
But the economic consequence for India is present in several blogs. What should concern India a lot is that the Saudis along with other rich Arab countries, by merely starting to replace Indian expats in the Middle East with non-Indians, would be a major damage to the Indian economy. Indians are not some super smart professionals. You throw a 1.5 billion darts on a dart board then some will certainly stick. But there are many countries in the world who are poor and with equally decent workforce and they would gladly replace Indians.
In short, India is in a very difficult situation after this accord between Pakistan and KSA. And the accord is real, with major implications for several countries. If India uses another excuse to attack Pakistan then it may even find a President Trump breathing fire on India. Who know what happened when General Asim Munir met Trump? Mr. Munir only took the ISI Chief along to keep things very secret and the Americans too are quiet about that meeting--maybe Trump knows and even approves Pakistan taking over as a security guarantor in the Middle East while America can finally focus on the Pacific Ocean? The American firepower in the Middle East is no long as credible as it was just 2-3 years ago, and neither are the American guarantees to provide the security.

American firepower in the Middle East was visible to all in Syria and Iraq where the US aimed to rollback the ISIL movement (Operation Inherent Resolve), and in Iran where the US aimed to cripple the Iranian nuclear infrastructure (Operation Midnight Hammer). However, the Middle East landscape remains unstable as different political forces in the region vie for power and control and have a conflict of interest.

I am all for improving Saudi-Pak bilateral relations. The KSA can play a role in improving Pakistan's economy while Pakistan can play a role in improving Saudi defenses. The KSA and Pakistan can explore joint weapon development. The RSAF and the PAF can also work together to protect Saudi airspace. However, I am not convinced that Pakistan can live up to Saudi security expectations in all its forms. Pakistani forces are not without limitations. Dozens of Pak troops lost their lives in a single battle in Somalia. The odds were much greater in Yemen and Pakistan kept its distance from the Saudi-Houthi war not long ago. What will Pakistan do if the KSA decides to fight another war in the region? What can Pakistan do about Israel in the Middle East? What will the KSA do in the event of Indo-Pak war? Pakistan have no say in Israeli affairs. The US is in a much better position to reduce Israel-GCC tensions. The KSA wants to improve bilateral relations with India as well. Pakistan taking over as a security guarantor in the Middle East sounds "very ambitious" to me.

 

[HAIDER]

Overseas Pakistanis contribute about $40b to Pakistan …. So should we stop sending money via official channels ?

As all this money might interfere with local Pakistani matters ?

Also nawj and dollar Darr lived ( ie ran away from cases) many years overseas so should they not be banned from interfering?

Let’s us know.

Gernello ka pisa bahar, bacha bahar....Island, EU properties. ..lollll

 

[HAIDER]

American firepower in the Middle East was visible to all in Syria and Iraq where the US aimed to rollback the ISIL movement (Operation Inherent Resolve), and in Iran where the US aimed to cripple the Iranian nuclear infrastructure (Operation Midnight Hammer). However, the Middle East landscape remains unstable as different political forces in the region vie for power and control and have a conflict of interest.

I am all for improving Saudi-Pak bilateral relations. The KSA can play a role in improving Pakistan's economy while Pakistan can play a role in improving Saudi defenses. The KSA and Pakistan can explore joint weapon development. The RSAF and the PAF can also work together to protect Saudi airspace. However, I am not convinced that Pakistan can live up to Saudi security expectations in all its forms. Pakistani forces are not without limitations. Dozens of Pak troops lost their lives in a single battle in Somalia. The odds were much greater in Yemen and Pakistan kept its distance from the Saudi-Houthi war not long ago. What will Pakistan do if the KSA decides to fight another war in the region? What can Pakistan do about Israel in the Middle East? What will the KSA do in the event of Indo-Pak war? Pakistan have no say in Israeli affairs. The US is in a much better position to reduce Israel-GCC tensions. The KSA wants to improve bilateral relations with India as well. Pakistan taking over as a security guarantor in the Middle East sounds "very ambitious" to me.

Marriage of convenience, one is economically weak and the other is militarily weak ..

 

[Pradotlc]

accidently went clicked on r/geopolitics discussing this , the Indians are still in copium . they think won in may and Pakistan will not exist in 2 months

hindu indians think cow pee drinking is good for their health... despite massive overwhelming evidence to the contrary..


they cannot be helped ....

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Also I wonder if it will sway Trump more towards Pakistan...bcuz he loves the Arab money.

P.S. Pakistan has no power projection ability to speak of...to fight a war that far away...Pakistan and KSA both will have to work on that.

Every mission & vision requires financing. Now, President Trump's MAGA is basically 19th century opportunistic isolation - put hands on the wealth in the Americas, Greenlands etc. with absolute geostrategic hegemony over there, but with ZERO involvement in European never-ending squabbles while trading with them and collecting their top talents. But, it requires financing. The current US tycoons might not fund it without stringent conditions. So, he needs an alternative source without conditions...

 

[Lulldapull]

American firepower in the Middle East was visible to all in Syria and Iraq where the US aimed to rollback the ISIL movement (Operation Inherent Resolve), and in Iran where the US aimed to cripple the Iranian nuclear infrastructure (Operation Midnight Hammer). However, the Middle East landscape remains unstable as different political forces in the region vie for power and control and have a conflict of interest.

I am all for improving Saudi-Pak bilateral relations. The KSA can play a role in improving Pakistan's economy while Pakistan can play a role in improving Saudi defenses. The KSA and Pakistan can explore joint weapon development. The RSAF and the PAF can also work together to protect Saudi airspace. However, I am not convinced that Pakistan can live up to Saudi security expectations in all its forms. Pakistani forces are not without limitations. Dozens of Pak troops lost their lives in a single battle in Somalia. The odds were much greater in Yemen and Pakistan kept its distance from the Saudi-Houthi war not long ago. What will Pakistan do if the KSA decides to fight another war in the region? What can Pakistan do about Israel in the Middle East? What will the KSA do in the event of Indo-Pak war? Pakistan have no say in Israeli affairs. The US is in a much better position to reduce Israel-GCC tensions. The KSA wants to improve bilateral relations with India as well. Pakistan taking over as a security guarantor in the Middle East sounds "very ambitious" to me.

We can't do anything other than maee mastani chowkidari no?

Technology hae aap k paas? nahi hae na? manufacturing hae? R&D hae?

Yous far lower than the Irani's in capability.

Everybody knows now. Irani aap say 50 saal aagay in capability.

Hard to believe you don't admit it.

Indians nay chaddi uttar dee sub k saamnay no?

I told you years ago but you got eembarrassed and ashamed.

Bhuggto ab aap!

 

[codeforfood]

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Lets hope Pakistan does not share its own tactics and capabilities to the fullest, because all these mid east countries have too many ties with western countries even if they are truly leaning this way, we should be careful as things tend to change on a dime these days.

 

[HAIDER]

Every mission & vision requires financing. Now, President Trump's MAGA is basically 19th century opportunistic isolation - put hands on the wealth in the Americas, Greenlands etc. with absolute geostrategic hegemony over there, but with ZERO involvement in European never-ending squabbles while trading with them and collecting their top talents. But, it requires financing. The current US tycoons might not fund it without stringent conditions. So, he needs an alternative source without conditions...

US is now more focused on the Pacific and less interested in the Middle East anymore, plus US charges an enormous amount for all deployments, a reason why KSA security handover to Pak ......

Why didn't Turkey show any interest, being a NATO member, even a small deployment in Qatar .....
Also why not Cario, KSA paid Egyptian Rafale deal .

 

[HAIDER]

We can't do anything other than maee mastani chowkidari no?

Technology hae aap k paas? nahi hae na? manufacturing hae? R&D hae?

Yous far lower than the Irani's in capability.

Everybody knows now. Irani aap say 50 saal aagay in capability.

Hard to believe you don't admit it.

Indians nay chaddi uttar dee sub k saamnay no?

I told you years ago but you got eembarrassed and ashamed.

Bhuggto ab aap!

Pakistan can't access US weapons in KSA, but those weapons are toothless anyway.

 

[Baibers_1260]

Waz said:
So if India launches Sand Door 2 then it's all go from Saudi?
Just deliveries of their advanced jets would be insane.
This also seems very grey.
-------------
It depends really...let's take a conservative look at the assistance Saudi Arabia could give Pakistan in case of an attack by India .. Direct participation of Saudi troops are obviously ruled out.
1. Soft assistance
Saudi Arabia could leverage its air, naval and space assets to provide real time and strategic intelligence to Pakistan.
( a) Saudi Geo Satellite 1 ( SGS-1) has average surveillance
capabilities. There are other smaller reconnaissance spy
satellites available mostly of Russian/Soviet vintage
(b) C4ISR integrated systems (navy) with intelligence from
other navies will be available. These might be crucial in a
Pakistan India showdown . Additionally the Royal Saudi
Navy's surveillance drones and helicopters would be
monitoring Indian merchant and naval shippin throughout
the Red Sea and Persian Gulf providing Pakistan with
crucial intelligence on Indian logistics and shipments of
weapons from its allies.
(c) Though far fetched Saudi Air Force AWACS E3A Sentry and
SAAB 2000 AEW aircraft might patrol the Arabian Sea
operating from Oman picking up Indian naval
communications.
(d) Saudi Arabia might close its air space to Indian passenger
aircraft
2, Hard assistance.
Saudi Arabia may transfer or lend M270 HIMARS GMRLS/ ATACM missile batteries since it has a fairly large stock (200) of these. Pakistanis may already have been trained on using them. Due to the precision and devastating fire power of these systems their deployment will have a great effect.

https://www.google.com/search?clien...VZ0Tzit7vNByicYqGkBdQRrCcGcR3LzfmW2LJQ&csui=3
https://www.google.com/search?clien...UaqHakdrtwyoes3XbnQNdB8nVasSLaD-Je41rw&csui=3

 

[Khanviletey]

I thank Alllah all mighty for this respect he gives our nation.

May Allah protect us and give us the ability to stand fast in his way! May he give us the ability to be able to be the worthy of the respect he had bestowed upon us.



Ameen

Kv

 

[Exped-33]

I see nothing but good coming from this collaboration. For decades we were ridiculed for uttering the words muslim ummah. Now finally we are seeing a glimpse, a ray of hope of musim nations uniting. Whats there to be critical about.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Everybody knows now. Irani aap say 50 saal aagay in capability.

Iran Pakistan se 50 saal pishab kerne me aggae hay in capability you egoistic nonsense person @Lulldapull lol

 

[MS Sandhu]

American firepower in the Middle East was visible to all in Syria and Iraq where the US aimed to rollback the ISIL movement (Operation Inherent Resolve), and in Iran where the US aimed to cripple the Iranian nuclear infrastructure (Operation Midnight Hammer). However, the Middle East landscape remains unstable as different political forces in the region vie for power and control and have a conflict of interest.

I am all for improving Saudi-Pak bilateral relations. The KSA can play a role in improving Pakistan's economy while Pakistan can play a role in improving Saudi defenses. The KSA and Pakistan can explore joint weapon development. The RSAF and the PAF can also work together to protect Saudi airspace. However, I am not convinced that Pakistan can live up to Saudi security expectations in all its forms. Pakistani forces are not without limitations. Dozens of Pak troops lost their lives in a single battle in Somalia. The odds were much greater in Yemen and Pakistan kept its distance from the Saudi-Houthi war not long ago. What will Pakistan do if the KSA decides to fight another war in the region? What can Pakistan do about Israel in the Middle East? What will the KSA do in the event of Indo-Pak war? Pakistan have no say in Israeli affairs. The US is in a much better position to reduce Israel-GCC tensions. The KSA wants to improve bilateral relations with India as well. Pakistan taking over as a security guarantor in the Middle East sounds "very ambitious" to me.

Pakistan could not effectively defend its assets on its own territory.
IAF pin pointly targeted PAF with its limited deployment of brahmos & Scalps and PAF miserably failed to deliver a reciprocal blow to IAF.

After this conflict, I am not confident of Pak Military to provide any sort of effective conventional military cover to Pakistanis let alone GCC where Israel/US can deploy weapons much superior in technology, doctrine and operators.

However, if this agreement can bring some investment in Pak's tiny defence industry to mass produce weapons like missiles & drones, that would be best possible outcome of this pact.
KSA can get the ToT for its own manufacturing industry.Win win for both.

 

[Pradotlc]

I see nothing but good coming from this collaboration. For decades we were ridiculed for uttering the words muslim ummah. Now finally we are seeing a glimpse, a ray of hope of musim nations uniting. Whats there to be critical about.

ok kid ... dont kid your self

the attack on Doha triggered this ....


this has nothing to do with "ummah"....it was more to do with their our security.



but yes Pakistan is smart to exploit this.