Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion

[FuturePAF]

I have been following blogspace today over this development. There is certainly much joy in the Pakistani analysts/blogspace over this development and no joy in India over this; even a Godi Media anchor presented this as a news without passing too many judgement or tried to cope hard.
But the economic consequence for India is present in several blogs. What should concern India a lot is that the Saudis along with other rich Arab countries, by merely starting to replace Indian expats in the Middle East with non-Indians, would be a major damage to the Indian economy. Indians are not some super smart professionals. You throw a 1.5 billion darts on a dart board then some will certainly stick. But there are many countries in the world who are poor and with equally decent workforce and they would gladly replace Indians.
In short, India is in a very difficult situation after this accord between Pakistan and KSA. And the accord is real, with major implications for several countries. If India uses another excuse to attack Pakistan then it may even find a President Trump breathing fire on India. Who know what happened when General Asim Munir met Trump? Mr. Munir only took the ISI Chief along to keep things very secret and the Americans too are quiet about that meeting--maybe Trump knows and even approves Pakistan taking over as a security guarantor in the Middle East while America can finally focus on the Pacific Ocean? The American firepower in the Middle East is no long as credible as it was just 2-3 years ago, and neither are the American guarantees to provide the security.

Trump maybe on board with what Pakistan is doing, within a few limits, because there is also something else he wants.

The other news that broke today was Trump’s desire to get back into Bagram, mine Afghan minerals, re-establish diplomatic ties, and set up a counter Daesh node, as well as monitor China, possibly with US troops/contractor/agency guys on the ground.

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The route into Afghanistan would ostensibly be through Pakistan, but this time less likely to be a staging ground for Indian “consulates”, hopefully, and therefore more on Pakistani terms. A new great game maybe a foot, for Afghanistan, the Saudis, the US, the Chinese, the Russians, and the Pakistanis.

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We also have to remember Trump is pissed at Putin, so maneuvering into Central Asia, which Putin still sees as part of “Russki Mir”, could send him the right signal from Trump.

This may also be why the US gave a wavier to Chahbahar for Indian use; pressure on Pakistan and a backdoor to Afghanistan.

So while it looks like “happy days are here again” (as the old adage says), Pakistan would be smart to absolutely go for broke and buildup as much conventional (and non-conventional) capability as it can, especially the long range rocket force, before Trump leaves office. Pakistan has a three year window, to really pour it all into getting investments and catching up in the defense industry. Look at the North Koreans in 2017 and by 2020, they had world class capabilities. It’s not about displaying these capabilities but if India is going to buildup these capabilities (Agni 6 is planned to have a 12,000 km range) to pressure the rest of the world, Pakistan should have parity in these capabilities as well. 12,000 km is specifically the minimum to put Pakistan in that world class capability. (A missile like this can be quietly built, and even smaller than the Shaheen 2 which is 17.2 meters long and 1.4 meters in diameter. Pakistan build a slightly bigger missile than the American SICBM, which was only 14 meters long and 1.17 meters in diameter, but had an 11,300 km range. Also, a 4000 km missile within the 12 meter length and 1 meter diameter of the Shaheen 1 dimensions would also improve deterrence quietly; through ambiguity.)

 

[Pradotlc]

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[Uzair Khan]

Pakistan could not effectively defend its assets on its own territory.
IAF pin pointly targeted PAF with its limited deployment of brahmos & Scalps and PAF miserably failed to deliver a reciprocal blow to IAF.

After this conflict, I am not confident of Pak Military to provide any sort of effective conventional military cover to Pakistanis let alone GCC where Israel/US can deploy weapons much superior in technology, doctrine and operators.

However, if this agreement can bring some investment in Pak's tiny defence industry to mass produce weapons like missiles & drones, that would be best possible outcome of this pact.
KSA can get the ToT for its own manufacturing industry.Win win for both.

The only reason iaf could pinpoint target was due to the lack of air defense. Air defense is very expensive and it requires a lot of Capital to build. You either have it or u don't and in the case of Pakistan we had to choose between fighter power and air defense. And the air force rightly went with more needed fighter jets. This problem will be solved as quickly as money comes inshallah then also as we have seen with Iran and Israel. It's difficult to completely stop missiles.its just how modern day war is. And on the other hand dont forget we also managed to strike adampur afb and multiple other targets in Kashmir even with the s400 ring. On the morning of 10th may the indian army spokesperson came talking about a ceasefire so reciprocial blow was def delivered . India's those assets failed in which it had invested most if its money while Pakistan's those failed in which we had invested the smallest portion of our already meagre defense Budget compared to india. Never forget this

 

[mythbuster]

Yes the US embargo hit us very hard since PAF was essentially all US made.

However what I said re: Luftwaffe F86 being sourced via Iran and Jordanian F104s is true.
I believe W/C Middlecoat was lost flying one of those and they didn't even have Aim9 on them.

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB79/BEBB29.pdf

Against All Odds - Pakistan Air Force in 1971

I have long thought the Indo-Pakistan wars deserve more attention. Helion Books obviously believe the same as they keep feeding my interest...

balkandave.blogspot.com

excerpt from A/C Kaiser Tufail's book.

Probably your couldn't pay full attention to what AC Tufail wrote.....he said we wanted to buy f 86e.......I am not sure if Jordan had F 104s .....it was a useless aircraft anyways.

 

[mythbuster]

I wonder where all these "watan ke thekaydaar" disappear when I visit Pakistan. When they see us...they come salivating at the prospect of making some money, receiving gifts, etc...appearing mazloom.
...when we leave...we get bombarded with constant WhatsApp messages...with them trying to be in the good graces of overseas Pakistanis...
...and here they act with such sour grape attitude.

Expats are good people , they will earn more respect if they take few steps down the conceit ladder.

 

[ziaulislam]

Pakistan could not effectively defend its assets on its own territory.
IAF pin pointly targeted PAF with its limited deployment of brahmos & Scalps and PAF miserably failed to deliver a reciprocal blow to IAF.

After this conflict, I am not confident of Pak Military to provide any sort of effective conventional military cover to Pakistanis let alone GCC where Israel/US can deploy weapons much superior in technology, doctrine and operators.

However, if this agreement can bring some investment in Pak's tiny defence industry to mass produce weapons like missiles & drones, that would be best possible outcome of this pact.
KSA can get the ToT for its own manufacturing industry.Win win for both.

At this point noone takes indians seriously
Regardless noone can counter blastic missles or hypersonic missiles

Question is can you eat the response.. apparently everyone knows how india couldn't and rushed to beg for ceasefire

You can live in lala land but everyone including Americans know what happened

 

[krash]

Pple living born outside should not comment or bark at our Pakistani matters.

Why?

There's a few men who were "living outside" that you owe quite a bit to.

 

[mythbuster]

At this point noone takes indians seriously
Regardless noone can counter blastic missles or hypersonic missiles

Question is can you eat the response.. apparently everyone knows how india couldn't and rushed to beg for ceasefire

You can live in lala land but everyone including Americans know what happened

Indians deserve Dheet of the century Award .....when they get raped they will claim it was consensual love

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

Good to have this alliance with Saudi Arabia.

BUT Saudi Arabia needs to support our war with India.

Like give us cheap oil and money to fund our wars with India.

 

[falcon34]

Pakistan could not effectively defend its assets on its own territory.
IAF pin pointly targeted PAF with its limited deployment of brahmos & Scalps and PAF miserably failed to deliver a reciprocal blow to IAF.

After this conflict, I am not confident of Pak Military to provide any sort of effective conventional military cover to Pakistanis let alone GCC where Israel/US can deploy weapons much superior in technology, doctrine and operators.

However, if this agreement can bring some investment in Pak's tiny defence industry to mass produce weapons like missiles & drones, that would be best possible outcome of this pact.
KSA can get the ToT for its own manufacturing industry.Win win for both.

Name one target of consequence other than bholari, which was a lucky shot, Barnala, S400 at Bhuj and Adampur are those not enough, drones were raping Indian airspace what more did you expect

 

[The SC]

dude, i have to sleep!

be happy, you won!

now go, have a real life!

Are you serious..thought you were more mature..
This is not about loosing or winning an argument..we are seeking the truth here not biased opinions..
Talking like that means you have no life .. so don't project your condition on others..

 

[Pradotlc]

Pakistan could not effectively defend its assets on its own territory.
IAF pin pointly targeted PAF with its limited deployment of brahmos & Scalps and PAF miserably failed to deliver a reciprocal blow to IAF.

After this conflict, I am not confident of Pak Military to provide any sort of effective conventional military cover to Pakistanis let alone GCC where Israel/US can deploy weapons much superior in technology, doctrine and operators.

However, if this agreement can bring some investment in Pak's tiny defence industry to mass produce weapons like missiles & drones, that would be best possible outcome of this pact.
KSA can get the ToT for its own manufacturing industry.Win win for both.

Indian story = Bakwaas.

 

[The SC]

Good to have this alliance with Saudi Arabia.

BUT Saudi Arabia needs to support our war with India.

Like give us cheap oil and money to fund our wars with India.

There is more to it than just that..believe it or not..











This is a small but powerful sample of what Saudi Arabia can provide Pakistan with..There is much more..

 

[FuturePAF]

The take by the following former Indian ambassador to Saudi Arabia are usually very insightful.

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[Mav3rick]

will that bring India and Isreal closer? somehow, Pak should normalise as much as possible with India instead of flexing this pact on Delhi's face. At the same time, Pak must keep Iran in an indirect loop and help it closer to China. We don't want any indirect Israel/US sympathisers or any anti-SA in our neighbourhood.

The next step is to get own house in order. Convince IEA to back off from TTP and BLA etc, as it is more important to safeguard SA from a possible Israeli onslaught. Acting against Pakistan is strengthening Israel, or so.

It is my opinion that we should use the Saudis and the Chinese to convince the Indian Government to mend their hegemonic and idiotic ways and start acting like the bigger country. With peace comes prosperity; although for them it may not be too much, maybe just a few Billion USD of trade with Pakistan, it will still settle down their border with Pakistan and they will no longer need any more false flag operations for internal political gimmics. They must also stop all the witch hunts targetting Muslims and settle down Kashmir and water issue through table talks.

We all have so much to win with peace and so much to lose with war. A bigger economic interest and trade between South East Asia, Middle East and Far East, Africa and Europe would be phenomenol. We (China, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and other small regional countries) are 50% of the world population; with peace, trust, trade & commerce, we can be economically bigger and stronger than Europe and USA combined.