Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion

Another point that came to my mind:
If we are unable to include Iran into this pact, we will be in direct conflict with Houthis. we better sign agreement with Iran as well asap. Any missile that is bound for Israel from Yemen should not be stopped in Saudi Arabia.
 
I suspect they will carry on funding as the military balance between it and Israel creates deterrence and reduces Israel's space to operate. So, even though the Egyptians to date have not spent that money as well as Pakistan would have, I don't think any of countries can afford to see Egypt become weaker, relative to Israel.

Is Egypt really any deterent to Israel?

Especially now that air power seems to be the promiary Israeli weapon of choice?

Egypt has a large and formidable land army, but events of last few years have proved that useless in Mid East context
 
Boots are already on the ground per my knowledge, have been for some time ☺️

At one PN Academy graduation in the news last year or year before, we graduated 48 PN cadets and 24 Saudi cadets. A full third of the intake of that year was Saudi, considering the relative size of their Navy compared to ours, that basically means PNA acts as the de facto Saudi Navy Academy.

Also once noted 18 Saudis at PAF Academy graduation at one point
 
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At one PN Academy graduation in the news last year or year before, we graduated 48 PN cadets and 24 Saudi cadets. A fulk third of the intake of that year was Saudi, considering the relative size of their Navy compared to ours, that basically means PNA acts as the de facto Saudi Navy Academy.

Also once noted 18 Saudis at PAF Academy graduation at one point
A LOT more than cadet training is happening, very different from past deployments and interactions.
 
can you elaborate further just hints. if its not any problem. if its secret then dnt
 
A LOT more than cadet training is happening, very different from past deployments and interactions.

Oh no, for sure, just pointing out the extent of training even at junior levels. At Mid levels as well (Staff college etc) there is a large Saudi presence (and always has been), how we have been helping them in many other matters is something that is probbaly not disclosed for good reasons....
 
Yes, some good points. The lack of joint hardware is a problem, especially in the context of trained manpower, which Pakistan has an adbundance of compared to Saudi.

For example former PAF pilots or PAF pilots on deputation are not capable of flying any Saudi fighter types (although an F-16 pilots could probably do an OCU course for the F-15SA/S very easily).
This would help Saudi capability a lot as at the moment the pilot to plane ratio they have is very low, and many of their jets are twin seaters (Tornado/F-15S/SA). Just having a full two crews for each jet will enhance their combat power a lot.

Lands forces and air defence wise situation is worse, Pakistani forces operate almost completely a mix of Pak/Chinese hardware in both armoured and air defence formations.

Navals wise much of the European equipment in our Turkish/Dutch ships will be similar to their French ships.

As I said in an earlier post, will be interesting to see how this agreement works out in terms of future joint conventional weapons procurement. The agreement already states Saudi will invest in Pakistani defence production. This could well be drones and missiles I imagine, that Saudi forces will then use, possibly even PFX fighter.


In terms of future procurement from non treaty partners, I think either Saudi will fund Pakistani purchases of western equipment or Saudi may buy Chinese equipment with Pak manpower and expertise or possibly even a combination of both
I am not tech savvy but I have this thought recurring in my mind....what are the chances of link 17 being adopted by Saudis ?
 
I agree, Qatar , Bahrain and UAE shouldnt exsist. The whole concept of Emiraat is outdated.

Brother Qatar, Bahrain and UAE are kept seperate emiraats by design. A larger much powerfull KSA would be seen as a threat by the West.

See the The Sykes–Picot Agreement, it was basically a secret deal made during World War I where Britain and France decided to carve up the Middle East between themselves once the Ottoman Empire collapsed. The problem was, they drew borders with little regard for the people actually living there, different ethnic and religious groups were lumped together or split apart.
Unfortunately (for the moment), as I have written many times, we Arabs are divided into far too many countries and regimes (20 +). This makes genuine unity and "speaking with one tongue" extremely difficult. Especially when many of the regimes in power are not serving the interests of the Arab people and the Arab world as a whole. This fragmentation is also taken advantage of by the West (US in particular), Israel and even regional countries. All part of geopolitical power games.

Sykes-Picot played a role in this but already prior to that the fragmentation had occurred.

Many are not aware of this but actually all the current ruling families in the GCC, had ruled prior or the same states prior to WW1. For instance for the past 300 years there have been various Saudi states (ruled by the House of Saud) some encompassing most of Arabia (minus Yemen) and even parts of Southern Iran.

1758358927925.png

Same with the Al Bu Said ruling dynasty in Oman that used to control this territory not long ago, including Gwadar in Pakistan that was sold.


1758358856622.png

In fact the youngest ruling family, from what I recall, are the Al-Thanis in Qatar which began some 200 years ago.

Anyway I agree fully with you and I have always said that the emergence of those GCC states as independent states (not historical regions or federal entities for instance) is by design and unnatural.

And we have evidence of this being the case because some of the first UK (KSA itself was never colonized by Westerners or anybody else for that matter but nearby areas were and substantial parts of Arabia were), Royal Air Force to be precise, engagements against Muslims in history, were against the Ikhwan (Saudi Ikhwan not the Muslim Brotherhood Ikhwan that later appeared in Egypt), when they tried to invade/conquer Transjordan and Iraq that had just fallen into the sphere/control of the British Empire prior to WW1 or just after.


There were also raids on Iraq and Kuwait that were suppressed by the British Air Force and local regimes/rulers.

We also saw this for the entire world to see when Saddam (Iraq) invaded Kuwait and had an idea of invading all of Eastern Arabia and thus laying claim on most of the world's oil and gas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Arabia

The main global power (USA) did not want that obviously.

But if you ask me and as I have argued in other threads, those small GCC states will organically reunify with the rest, because long-term their existence as truly independent states cannot be guaranteed. Regardless of the political landscape and type of rule.

It is a complex situation and not something that is likely to be "solved" overnight.

Any way formal unification is actually not needed if just the GCC, Arab League, OIC etc. could turn into an EFFECTIVE EU-like movement or NATO-like movement, many of the challenges could be solved.

Any way, I wrote about this topic in this thread (page 3) for those interested, as it is not really too relevant for this thread which is about KSA and Pakistan

 
I am not tech savvy but I have this thought recurring in my mind....what are the chances of link 17 being adopted by Saudis ?

Zero at the moment I imagine, PAF does not even have it in F-16s.

Basically cannot change anything on a western system with permission
 
Another point that came to my mind:
If we are unable to include Iran into this pact, we will be in direct conflict with Houthis. we better sign agreement with Iran as well asap. Any missile that is bound for Israel from Yemen should not be stopped in Saudi Arabia.
I have already covered this many times already in this thread. There is NO war between KSA and the Houthis (who control just 20% of Yemen and do not equal Yemen and are not even the internationally recognized government/representatives of Yemen) since 2020. In fact since 2017-2018 until 2020 it was a very low scale conflict. There is an understanding now (you see any Houthi attacks on KSA or vice versa?) and Houthis are independent from the failing Iranian regime to begin with.

Not only that, KSA and Iran (regime) have burried (officially and de facto) the hatchet 2-3 years ago as well and there are frequent meetings. Already discussed prior in this thread (look a few pages back) too.

Also this is most likely a purely defensive agreement. KSA has no appetite for any wars or interventions anywhere unless attacked for a million of reasons already covered as well in this thread by me and others.
 
do we have saab 2000
Zero at the moment I imagine, PAF does not even have it in F-16s.

Basically cannot change anything on a western system with permission
saab 2000 cant we use link 17 and connect them just like we have in paf. i onow its amature question
 
Unfortunately (for the moment), as I have written many times, we Arabs are divided into far too many countries and regimes (20 +). This makes genuine unity and "speaking with one tongue" extremely difficult. Especially when many of the regimes in power are not serving the interests of the Arab people and the Arab world as a whole. This fragmentation is also taken advantage of by the West (US in particular), Israel and even regional countries. All part of geopolitical power games.

Sykes-Picot played a role in this but already prior to that the fragmentation had occurred.

Many are not aware of this but actually all the current ruling families in the GCC, had ruled prior or the same states prior to WW1. For instance for the past 300 years there have been various Saudi states (ruled by the House of Saud) some encompassing most of Arabia (minus Yemen) and even parts of Southern Iran.

View attachment 148095

Same with the Al Bu Said ruling dynasty in Oman that used to control this territory not long ago, including Gwadar in Pakistan that was sold.


View attachment 148092

In fact the youngest ruling family, from what I recall, are the Al-Thanis in Qatar which began some 200 years ago.

Anyway I agree fully with you and I have always said that the emergence of those GCC states as independent states (not historical regions or federal entities for instance) is by design and unnatural.

And we have evidence of this being the case because some of the first UK (KSA itself was never colonized by Westerners or anybody else for that matter but nearby areas were and substantial parts of Arabia were), Royal Air Force to be precise, engagements against Muslims in history, were against the Ikhwan (Saudi Ikhwan not the Muslim Brotherhood Ikhwan that later appeared in Egypt), when they tried to invade/conquer Transjordan and Iraq that had just fallen into the sphere/control of the British Empire prior to WW1 or just after.


There were also raids on Iraq and Kuwait that were suppressed by the British Air Force and local regimes/rulers.

We also saw this for the entire world to see when Saddam (Iraq) invaded Kuwait and had an idea of invading all of Eastern Arabia and thus laying claim on most of the world's oil and gas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Arabia

The main global power (USA) did not want that obviously.

But if you ask me and as I have argued in other threads, those small GCC states will organically reunify with the rest, because long-term their existence as truly independent states cannot be guaranteed. Regardless of the political landscape and type of rule.

It is a complex situation and not something that is likely to be "solved" overnight.

Any way formal unification is actually not needed if just the GCC, Arab League, OIC etc. could turn into an EFFECTIVE EU-like movement or NATO-like movement, many of the challenges could be solved.

Any way, I wrote about this topic in this thread (page 3) for those interested, as it is not really too relevant for this thread which is about KSA and Pakistan

Bringing Yemen in the fold (eventually) is important to simplify logistics. It’s a mess at the moment though.
 
F**k Iran, unsure why many here have such sympathy for them. If they had nukes and we did not, I can assure you they would be placing their boots on our necks right now.

As someone said, they are irrelevent now, focused on regime survival. If they could not shield Hezbollah or Assad, they means they can do jack shit now
Iranians are our sidekicks now , show some grace and be magnonimous.
 

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