Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[orthodux]

Is the latest one is different and more sofisticated than the others already in PAF inventory? Range wise etc.

 

[razgriz19]

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A recent satellite image (June 2023) suggested that at least one PAF ZDK-03 (14-004?) was overhauled and possibly upgraded to the ZDK-03A standard at SAC.
- Last Updated 6/17/24

I thought these were going to be retired due to high upkeep cost

 

[Michael]

AWACS is very, very expensive military equipment. For the PAF, the ZDK-03 is enough, and the limited defense budget should be spent elsewhere. The newer generation of AWACS aircraft is mainly upgraded for fifth-generation fighters, and the PAF does not have the need for this for the time being.

 

[xbat]

they are retiring ZDKs for their poor perfomance not high cost of operation

 

[Ali_Baba]

AWACS is very, very expensive military equipment. For the PAF, the ZDK-03 is enough, and the limited defense budget should be spent elsewhere. The newer generation of AWACS aircraft is mainly upgraded for fifth-generation fighters, and the PAF does not have the need for this for the time being.

The ZDK-03 are being retired - they are not good enough compared with the Erieye it seems !!!! No way PAF would have spent the cash on more Erieye if the ZDK-03 were performing as it could have used that money for more JF17 Block III's and J10CE's..

 

[silicon0000]

The ZDK-03 are being retired - they are not good enough compared with the Erieye it seems !!!! No way PAF would have spent the cash on more Erieye if the ZDK-03 were performing as it could have used that money for more JF17 Block III's and J10CE's..

there were news/rumors that these will be converted for other purposes like transport etc but not sure.

 

[Ali_Baba]

there were news/rumors that these will be converted for other purposes like transport etc but not sure.

The airframes can potentially be reused, though with a force of 3 aircraft, it is questionable how effective they are cost wise with such a small force.

 

[Michael]

The ZDK-03 are being retired - they are not good enough compared with the Erieye it seems !!!! No way PAF would have spent the cash on more Erieye if the ZDK-03 were performing as it could have used that money for more JF17 Block III's and J10CE's..

I'm sorry for the problem.

I always thought that the ZDK-03 was an export version of the KJ500. It wasn't until I went to check the information just now that I realized that this was a misunderstanding. The ZDK-03 was an early custom built specifically for PAF, and it predates the KJ500 by several years.

Apologies again!

 

[Ali_Baba]

I'm sorry for the problem.

I always thought that the ZDK-03 was an export version of the KJ500. It wasn't until I went to check the information just now that I realized that this was a misunderstanding. The ZDK-03 was an early custom built specifically for PAF, and it predates the KJ500 by several years.

Apologies again!

I am suprised that PAF decided to not upgrade to KJ500 standard. I dont understand PAFs decision in that regard ( assuming of course that the chinese were prepared to offer the v standard ).

not sure why "you" are sorry for the problem! its not your issue! lol !

 

[Michael]

I always thought that the ZDK-03 was an export version of the KJ500, and now I know that this is a misconception.

ZDK-03预警机

ZDK-03预警机（中国代号：ZDK-03，英文：ZDK-03 AWACS Aircraft，巴基斯坦空军代号：Karakoram Eagle，译文：喀喇昆仑鹰），是21世纪初期中国中航工业陕西飞机工业（集团）有限公司和中国电子科技集团公司联合研制并出口巴基斯坦的一种中型预警指挥机。

baike.baidu.com

空警-500

空警-500是继空警-2000、空警-200后，中国自主研制的第三型预警机。该型预警机是新型、中型、全天候、多传感器空中预警与指挥控制飞机，主要承担空中巡逻警戒及指挥控制任务。

baike.baidu.com

Judging by the above information, the PAF really needs to decommission the ZDK-03 and replace it with a new AWACS aircraft

 

[Yasser76]

Choosing the Erieye and the SAAB 2000 platform was a great move by PAF.

The article confirms 9 Erieyes in service, this is in addition to our 5 standard SAAB 2000s for transport.

This enables us to save airframe life on the Erieyes by using the standard SAAB 2000s for pilot training.

Additionally turboprops suffer from less engine downtime for maintenence then jet engines. Jet engines give better performance but guessing this is not an issue for PAF as Pakistan's size dictates that these planes are on station pretty much as soon as they are airborne. The AE2100 Turboprop is used by the worldwide SAAB 2000 and C-130J fleets so spares and training engineers of these will never be a problem.

9 means that during surge operations you can disperse 3 aircraft to 3 different bases in North, Central and Southern Pakistan and for quite a while (til deep level checks need t be done) you can have one bird from each of the three bases in the air at anytimes, giving you 3 AEW 24/7.

Considering our only air threat is from the East it means incredibly good coverage.

No compare that that to IAF with 3 Phalcons and 2 Netas.

They will struggle to have just one AEW airborne at anytime and have to monitor China too.

The ERJ-145 is a decent jet but with only 2 and the need to train pilots and taking into account down time, you can realistically expect only 1 to 2 flights every 24 hours, so maybe 12 hours of coverage a day, and that is assuming no mainetence issues crop up.

Phalcon uses 4 Soviet era PS-90 engines. Unsure what the spares and maintainence situation is with these now due to Ukrain War but onne can assume requires heavy servicing at regular intervals.

 

[Michael]

I am suprised that PAF decided to not upgrade to KJ500 standard. I dont understand PAFs decision in that regard ( assuming of course that the chinese were prepared to offer the v standard ).

If PAF does decide to buy the J31, then the KJ500 is a must-have.

The most important "Superior Avionics for Battle Awareness and Effectiveness" of the fifth-generation fighter cannot be achieved without the support of the corresponding electronic warfare system. Without this ability of the J31, there is not much difference between the actual combat ability and the J10C. It is impossible for China to redevelop a set of electronic warfare systems for the J31 of the PAF.

However, China is developing the latest model of the AWACS KJ700, and leaked photos have already leaked. This possibility is not ruled out, and China sells the J31 and KJ700 packages to PAF.

 

[silicon0000]

If PAF does decide to buy the J31, then the KJ500 is a must-have.

The most important "Superior Avionics for Battle Awareness and Effectiveness" of the fifth-generation fighter cannot be achieved without the support of the corresponding electronic warfare system. Without this ability of the J31, there is not much difference between the actual combat ability and the J10C. It is impossible for China to redevelop a set of electronic warfare systems for the J31 of the PAF.

However, China is developing the latest model of the AWACS KJ700, and leaked photos have already leaked. This possibility is not ruled out, and China sells the J31 and KJ700 packages to PAF.

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J31 and J10CE are export version So they must have some way to communicate as PAF already have F16, JF17 and now J10CE and all are well integrated. Seperate AWACS for each type of fighter seems too costly for PAF.

 

[Yasser76]

J31 and J10CE are export version So they must have some way to communicate as PAF already have F16, JF17 and now J10CE and all are well integrated. Seperate AWACS for each type of fighter seems too costly for PAF.

Yeah, rather then a performance issue regarding the actual AEW I suspect it may be an integration issue?

PAF must have tested ZDK before purchasing. I think it's preference was always for Swedish option.

After buying both Erieye and ZDK maybe it was difficult integrating European and US equipment (F-16, Turkish Naval radars, TPS-77 etc) into ZDK? From what I gather Link 17 cannot be integrated into F-16 so ZDKs could not "talk" to the F-16s via TDL, maybe its the case that Erieye can use both LInk 16 to talk to F-16s and Link 17 to talk to other assets?

 

[Quwa]

If PAF does decide to buy the J31, then the KJ500 is a must-have.

The most important "Superior Avionics for Battle Awareness and Effectiveness" of the fifth-generation fighter cannot be achieved without the support of the corresponding electronic warfare system. Without this ability of the J31, there is not much difference between the actual combat ability and the J10C. It is impossible for China to redevelop a set of electronic warfare systems for the J31 of the PAF.

However, China is developing the latest model of the AWACS KJ700, and leaked photos have already leaked. This possibility is not ruled out, and China sells the J31 and KJ700 packages to PAF.

View attachment 57953



View attachment 57955

The PAF will use its own in-house TDL to connect its fighter assets, including the J-31. In fact, Pakistan's TDL stack is good and scalable, with in-house TDLs driving both air force and naval needs via Link-17 and Link Green, respectively.

Yeah, rather then a performance issue regarding the actual AEW I suspect it may be an integration issue?

PAF must have tested ZDK before purchasing. I think it's preference was always for Swedish option.

After buying both Erieye and ZDK maybe it was difficult integrating European and US equipment (F-16, Turkish Naval radars, TPS-77 etc) into ZDK? From what I gather Link 17 cannot be integrated into F-16 so ZDKs could not "talk" to the F-16s via TDL, maybe its the case that Erieye can use both LInk 16 to talk to F-16s and Link 17 to talk to other assets?

Sweden wasn't in NATO when the Erieye was first developed, hence requiring Saab to design the Erieye to support proprietary TDLs from the onset. In other words, there's no restriction on whether the Erieye can support Link-17, Link-16, etc. Rather, the Erieye was specifically designed to support as many TDLs as possible from the onset.

For the Erieye to support multiple TDLs, the PAF needed to configure it with a system that can receive and process information from different TDLs -- Multi Data-Link Processor or M-DLP, like the Leonardo M-DLP or MilSoft M-DLP.

When the PAF inducted ZDK03, I suspect this system wasn't yet added to the Erieye, and the PAF couldn't get to it when it lost several units to the terrorist attack. So, that project got delayed until the new and rebuilt Erieyes came online.