Parsis and Hindutva's Ethnic Nationalism in India

[vsdoc]

My posts were pretty short and to the point. You know the gist.

If you still feel the need to "defend" Parsi's questionable busines past, do so without dragging in Hindus or me.

Rabindranath Tagor and "Raja" Ram Mohan Roy are both products of the same opium trade too. History is what it is.

How can you drag someone who was there before you?

You know, like the Hindu in the opium trade of the subcontinent, through Mughal rule.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Kingfisher]

purani ID bata, darpok @Rivino

 

[Guru Dutt]

thereused to be OPIUM THEKAs in UP & delhi till 1960s like there are now Thekas of wine and beer shop i guess it should back at least for bhang

 

[Joe Shearer]

I was greatly tired and in need of a soothing hot bath and a shave.

Hope you're feeling better.

 

[vsdoc]

thereused to be OPIUM THEKAs in UP & delhi till 1960s like there are now Thekas of wine and beer shop i guess it should back at least for bhang

Correct. And ganja sold in pudis in government thekas.

Cheers, Doc

Hope you're feeling better.

Much. Surprising what a close shave can do to a man's morale.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Guru Dutt]

Correct. And ganja sold in pudis in government thekas.

Cheers, Doc



Much. Surprising what a close shave can do to a man's morale.

Cheers, Doc

well if US states can legalise marijuana why cant we legalise bhaang as its also good for cattle and if taken in small quantity helps with many gastri related problems specially in men over 35

 

[vsdoc]

well if US states can legalise marijuana why cant we legalise bhaang as its also good for cattle and if taken in small quantity helps with many gastri related problems specially in men over 35

You are preaching to the Pope.

Though I quit 14 years ago, and counting.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Joe Shearer]

maybe but the core issue as one of my chinese partners once told me who had some buisness in burma aswell that core reason for chinese anger towards indians was there support to british when we were actually there subjects just like chinese and british were almost as brutal towards us as they were to chinese ... but thing is chinese dont have small memory like indians but they are sure logical hope one day they get the real game played on india and china by UK and European empirial powers

A tangential point here is the Chinese sneer at Indians for being colonised slaves, whereas the Chinese were never colonised by Europeans, not as an entire nation.
That they were ruled by foreigners twice, once by the Mongols, once by the border-dwelling Manchu, is never to be mentioned in conversation, only permitted in Kung Fu films (where Shaolin=Han Chinese Kung Fu is always better than the Manchu oppressor's).
So they don't have any good, clear reason for disliking Indians, just xenophobia, just like some Indians for other indians.

 

[Guru Dutt]

A tangential point here is the Chinese sneer at Indians for being colonised slaves, whereas the Chinese were never colonised by Europeans, not as an entire nation.
That they were ruled by foreigners twice, once by the Mongols, once by the border-dwelling Manchu, is never to be mentioned in conversation, only permitted in Kung Fu films (where Shaolin=Han Chinese Kung Fu is always better than the Manchu oppressor's).
So they don't have any good, clear reason for disliking Indians, just xenophobia, just like some Indians for other indians.

Han Chinese always considerred themselfs as the most suerior race and china as the centre of the world to them we indians are a subjeted race its another matter for thoousands of years they took knowledge of education -metulargy medicine , martial arts and spritualism from india but unfortunately deu to muslim invassion we lost all owr records of history and found its fragments preserved in chinese books and some saved by chinese and european travellers but thats not the point chinese are proud cause they think they never were colonised either by muslims or by europeans which is false and indians rubbed this wrong way on them thats why they hate us

 

[vsdoc]

Han Chinese always considerred themselfs as the most suerior race and china as the centre of the world to them we indians are a subjeted race its another matter for thoousands of years they took knowledge of education -metulargy medicine , martial arts and spritualism from india but unfortunately deu to muslim invassion we lost all owr records of history and found its fragments preserved in chinese books and some saved by chinese and european travellers but thats not the point chinese are proud cause they think they never were colonised either by muslims or by europeans which is false and indians rubbed this wrong way on them thats why they hate us

We might be derailing the thread further, but honestly, the British colonised China exactly as they colonised India, both in the way in which they desired.

The British did not need to take over the Chinese mainland and hinterland. Nor did they want to .

They were happy to control the major port cities. Militarily. With their maritime might. Buy off the many warlords. And keep the peasantry stoned.

Work done.

India was always their jewel in the crown.

They hated giving up and leaving India.

Look at what they are left with.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Guru Dutt]

We might be derailing the thread further, but honestly, the British colonised China exactly as they colonised India, both in the way in which they desired.

The British did not need to take over the Chinese mainland and hinterland. Nor did they want to .

They were happy to control the major port cities. Militarily. With their maritime might. Buy off the many warlords. And keep the peasantry stoned.

Work done.

India was always their jewel in the crown.

They hated giving up and leaving India.

Look at what they are left with.

Cheers, Doc

maybe the best post so far in the thread good one bro

 

[Joe Shearer]

Han Chinese always considerred themselfs as the most suerior race and china as the centre of the world to them we indians are a subjeted race its another matter for thoousands of years they took knowledge of education -metulargy medicine , martial arts and spritualism from india but unfortunately deu to muslim invassion we lost all owr records of history and found its fragments preserved in chinese books and some saved by chinese and european travellers but thats not the point chinese are proud cause they think they never were colonised either by muslims or by europeans which is false and indians rubbed this wrong way on them thats why they hate us

That is a fact, that they were never colonised by either Muslim nations or by European nations, only lost part of their territory to Europeans, all of which they have recovered - from the Germans, the Russians (mostly), the Portuguese and the British.

The point is that they were ruled - wholly - by their border tribe, the Manchu (as the Qing dynasty), the last imperial dynasty.

Two historical ironies.

The Qing were the greatest Chinese colonisers. 60% of present-day PRC territory is non-Han Chinese territory colonised by brute force, using genocide, by the Qing.

Second irony - it was during Qing rule that Europeans got control of Chinese territory - Tsingtao, Port Arthur, Macau, Hong Kong.

The only originally Han territory unrecovered is with the Russians.

 

[Rivino]

How can you drag someone who was there before you?

You know, like the Hindu in the opium trade of the subcontinent, through Mughal rule.

Cheers, Doc

What makes you think that Hindus had control over anything under Mughal rule ?

Mughals actively TRADED in Hindu slaves. It was Shivaji who put and end to it. Made slavery illegal and trading in slaves illegal.

Bengal traded Hindu slaves under their sultans. It was East India company that ended it.

Under Mughal opium trade as State business. So Marwari businessmen did what they had to do.

Same thing under the British.
British had established a monopoly on Indian cotton and cloth. Indians were forbidden to sell to others. Indians were prevented from producing cloth to prevent competition to the mills of England.
It was illegal for Indians to build ships, run ships, make weapons, sell weapons. It was illegal for Indians to make steel. Anything of value was reserved for the british to trade in.

Parsi's did not have the same restrictions imposed on Hindus or even muslims. THAT is why they flourished.

Between 1805 and 1821, Daman was the main outlet for opium however the big opium dealers conducted the trade from Bombay. The Company raj made strenuous efforts to limit the Malwa trade which it could not monopolize like that in Bengal, but was un-successful.

However in 1819 the Maratha's lost the 3rd Anglo maratha war and this put the Dutch out of action. The british also put and end to the auctions of opium in Bombay from 1830.

From 1830, the Company Raj imposed a high duty on Malwa’s production.

Tarachand Ghanshyamdas (1791 to 1957.) was the leading Business House of the time. They primerly traded in woolen garments at that time. But due to the restrictive Raj policies they were forced to move into the Opium trade.

The grandfathers of both G.D. Birla and Lakshmi Mittal (Mittal steel) worked for great Tarachand Ghanshyamdas while grandfather of Raja Baldeo Das Birla worked at the great Ganeriwala Firm.

After the ban on Opium auction in Bombay the Marwaris' moved to Kolkata in mass.

In fact it was the Marwaris who invented and introduced the fist TELEGRAPH system in India.

Calcutta Marwari merchants wired the current rates for opium to Jaipur. Agents in Jaipur used a system of mirrors to flash the rates from hilltop to hilltop. From the final hill outside of Jhunjhunu a runner would come to the city and inform the merchants of the rates.
At night, If the information needed to be supplied, gunpowder explosions were deployed along the same route.

In 1896 four marwari firms, “Devibaksh Jivanram’, ‘Ramnarain Bhojraj’, ‘Daulatram Lakshminarain’ and ‘Shivnarain Baldeodas’ came together in a room at Kaligodam Number 18, Mullick Street in Bara Bazaar to form ‘Bare Chaurastiya’ (the Gang of Four) who speculates in Opium. They formed the "Afeem Chaurasta Ki Panchayat" and enjoyed complete Juristicion over the Marwaris engaged in the Opium trade.

By 1915, the marwaris who moved to Kolkata formed a Cartel led by Sarupchand Hukumchand and Harduttrai Chamaria which enjoyed complete monopoly on Opium trade. By 1925 the opium trade ended.

From the Customer end, Opium sales were Legalized in Hong Kong in 1845 after the British defeated China in the 1st Opium War and after the 2nd Opium War, opium trade was unrestricted and on full blast from 1860 onwards.

The origin of the Share market can be traced to the Regular opium futures trading by Marwari’s in Bombay and Calcutta in the 1830's.

Shivnarain Birla, grandfather of Ghanshyamdas Birla began his career was an independent opium speculator and for 10 years perfected the art of opium speculation in which he made large gains. The same guys who funded Gandhi.

 

[Joe Shearer]

We might be derailing the thread further, but honestly, the British colonised China exactly as they colonised India, both in the way in which they desired.

The British did not need to take over the Chinese mainland and hinterland. Nor did they want to .

They were happy to control the major port cities. Militarily. With their maritime might. Buy off the many warlords. And keep the peasantry stoned.

Work done.

India was always their jewel in the crown.

They hated giving up and leaving India.

Look at what they are left with.

Cheers, Doc

Don't agree (about China), but that's OK.

 

[Rivino]

purani ID bata, darpok @Rivino

Why ?